Honda Recall - 3.5L main bearing problems 1

[drwebb]

So Honda is having trouble with their V6 main bearings: https://www.cnn.com/2024/11/11/business/honda-engine-recall/index.html

Not a good look such a basic component has a defect coming from an OEM that leans into their engine durability prowess (or at least used to).

 

[XR250]

A minor issue on a few years of one variant, of one engine, in one of the most-produced engine families, known for reliability in everything from 3rd world cheapies to 1st world supercars.

Not true at all.Timing chains and phasers. Watch Ford Tech Makuloco's videos.

 

[TugboatEng]

The problem here is that many are relating their experiences with NBR or EPDM rubber to HNBR rubber which is quite a bit more durable under hot engine conditions. You can't blame the rubber for incorrect specification.

As for engine room fires, lube oil and diesel fuel both have lower auto-ignition temperatures than gasoline. Fires do happen. I've had one. It was a lube oil fire that ignited when a steel line broke.

 

[XR250]

You can't blame the rubber for incorrect specification

I imagine whoever designed the belt (Gates maybe) is well versed in hot versus warm conditions. Seems like it is more not finding a mix that will tolerate all the chemicals in used engine oil for that amount of time/miles. Although, Honda has been using wet belts in their small equipment engines for decades - which notoriously have dirty oil.. Have not heard many issues with them although the consequences of a broken belt in that application is not much.

 

[CWB1]

Not true at all.Timing chains and phasers. Watch Ford Tech Makuloco's videos.

Warranty data proves their reliability, hence the reason they've been one of the top-selling engines for 15 years.

As mentioned previously, most of the top "influencers" on YouTube famously fake their videos for views and either mislead or blatantly lie about having professional experience. Their "barn finds" and "cold starts" arent, "restorations" often involve faux-rust applied to a restored car/gun/toy/etc, and "tear-downs" involve staged parts. Its entertainment like "reality tv," not a documentary., and often scripted by sponsors. Believing that nonsense is like believing the Instagram girls' 44ZZ-14-44 figures aren't AI-enhanced.

 

[XR250]

Warranty data proves their reliability, hence the reason they've been one of the top-selling engines for 15 years.

I am guessing you are a Ford Truck owner. Anything can make it past a 60k warranty. These things don't start failing until they are out of warranty.
They are likely top selling because people buy them based on Fords' past history of having reasonably reliable stuff and huge brand loyalty . I guarantee you that is changing.

 

[BrianPetersen]

For the Ford stuff, are you people talking about the water pump on the transverse-mounted non-ecoboost V6 - the one that when it lets go, leaks coolant into the oil and kabooms the engine if not caught straight away? Doesn't affect the comparable engine used in longitudinal installations - the water pump is not driven the same way. The trouble is that pro-actively replacing the water pump on the transverse-engine vehicles is a very expensive proposition, and most people don't do it. And yet ... friend of mine has a Ford Edge with one of those engines, and he's not had trouble with it.

Or are you talking about the grooves between cylinders on the top of the block of several different inline-4 ecoboost engines - the ones that blow head gaskets and crack blocks? My sister and brother-in-law had an Escape with one of those engines (1.6 Ecoboost 4 cylinder) for a long time. Never had any trouble, although the vehicle has since been traded in for a Subaru - another vehicle with a reputation as a head-gasket-blower - but that hasn't been trouble, either. CVT in the Subaru, too. Not a vehicle that I would have bought. Hasn't been an issue.

There's always something. GM is going through some things with the 6.2 V8 truck engines. Friend of mine has one (which he bought used about a year and a half ago). It collapsed a lifter and took out the camshaft. Very little warning, either - it just started running rough one day and the "money light" came on, with an underlying misfire code. But the collapsed-lifter thing isn't what the current service campaign is about. It's bottom-end bearings.

My van has the Chrysler Pentastar 3.6 V6 petrol engine that they've built millions of, and put into just about everything. I'm quite aware of the potential "Pentastar tick" issue and the cracked-oil-cooler-base issue. Knock on wood but I've not had trouble. I'm careful to not overtorque the oil filter cap - it's sealed with an O-ring and need only be just snug - and the dealer never sees the van, so they can't break it for me, either. There's speculation that the somewhat-related "Hemi tick" (same issue on a different engine series) is due to high idle time, which my van doesn't see. Mine spends 90% of its run time, at 1700 rpm in sixth gear with the torque converter locked. So far, so good.

 

[SwinnyGG]

Yeah Brian, it's weird.

It's almost like every manufacturer has certain problems that can crop up at a low rate, that most people never experience, but get blown up as if every engine on the road is about to explode at any given moment because in the social media era, publicizing rare events is much, much easier and there are zero consequences for raising hell about things that do happen but are relatively rare.

If only we were on an engineering-based forum where we could have an emotion and opinion free discussion about what the facts are. Wouldn't that be great? We should start one.

 

[LionelHutz]

If only we were on an engineering-based forum where we could have an emotion and opinion free discussion about what the facts are. Wouldn't that be great? We should start one.

Don't be ridiculous. If every single unit of an engine type can't make it 300k miles without an issues then it deserves to be ranted about. Same with any engine that uses a component or design that is personally deemed as being "stupid".

 

[TugboatEng]

Do you drive a Mini Cooper?

 

[JayMaechtlen]

I don't understand the opposition the wet belt has. Aramid reinforcement will have no issues with exposure to on hot oil. The rubber needs to be selected correctly. I'm guessing the wet belts are HNBR.

looking at a couple of "I do cars" youtube, it looks like the wet belts can degrade/fail catastrophically if the owner fails to use Ford's recommended motor oil. Most motors have a lot of leeway, but with wet belts - wrong oil = dead motor.

 

[TugboatEng]

I don't believe he found any deteriorated wet belts?

The wrong oil breaks piston ring lands too. API released a new spec recently, SP for direct injection engines. I wonder what the oil change shops are using?

 

[JayMaechtlen]

Bc you dont need to change a wet belt.

you just replace the whole engine.

 

[JayMaechtlen]

I don't believe he found any deteriorated wet belts?

The wrong oil breaks piston ring lands too. API released a new spec recently, SP for direct injection engines. I wonder what the oil change shops are using?

in "I do cars" he has found a number of deteriorated wet belts - lost teeth, stopped driving oil pump, engine died.

 

[TugboatEng]

Ok, I found the video. It's hard to watch because the narrator doesn't know the difference between EPDM rubber and HNBR.

Second, it appears the failure originated in the tensioner, not the belt.

Cam drive tensioners fail whether they're for belts or chains.

BMW built an engine, N63, that can suck the serpentine belt through the crankshaft front seal, clog the oil pump, and wipe out a crankshaft because of improper o-ring material spec on the oil filter housing.

Rubber is great, you need to know how to specify it and pedigree matters if you don't.

Can a wet melt make it to 90k miles like a dry belt?

It seems most people here have issue with European design infiltrating US auto making.

 

[XR250]

BMW built an engine, N63, that can suck the serpentine belt through the crankshaft front seal, clog the oil pump, and wipe out a crankshaft because of improper o-ring material spec on the oil filter housing.

Another case of a "wet" belt failing LOL.

 

[mfgenggear]

you decide if factual