Nightmare Wood Project 6

[SteelPE]

I recently completed a wood framed building that is going to be used as a retail building for a local farm. The building wasn't easy as the clients wanted large open spaces with vaulted ceilings and such (see my previous thread about scissor trusses from a few months ago). Everything was rushed during the design phase but we ended up getting the engineering completed and everyone was happy.

The other day I went out to the site to do a rough inspection of the completed framing. During my inspection I noticed a ton of that we had called out on the drawing missing. In all it seemed like the GC just used our drawings to pull a permit then decided to do whatever they wanted. Now we are in the fighting phase of the contract trying to get the items we called out on the drawings installed properly.... and running through the process of fixing their F**kups.

One particular items that is irking me has to do with the fact that we showed some 5 1/4" x 7" psl posts with an ABU base and a ECCQ cap that needed to be installed under some rather large truss girders. The GC decided to install 2 smaller posts to make the larger one (he installed the cap but not the base which is another issue). Barring other issues can you bolt together two smaller PSL posts to make a large post?

 

[phamENG]

Welcome to the world of wood design and construction. As a former colleague of mine often says "Our drawings are just suggestions anyway...." A lot of the GCs doing wood construction at any level do at least 70% residential and only encounter an engineer every 6th project for a beam. Not excusable, but seems to be the reality.

I don't think the manufacturer has any literature about it, but I don't see why not. If you follow the NDS guidelines for built up compression members it should work.

 

[DaveAtkins]

Depending on the state/jurisdiction where the project is located, you may have the option of refusing to sign off on the occupancy permit for the building, if the GC refuses to make the necessary corrections.

Regarding the PSL post question, I think you can bolt together the two posts to create a larger, composite post. You could follow the NDS recommendations for creating a built up post out of smaller members.

DaveAtkins

 

[jdcollins]

While I agree with DaveAtkins and phamENG about seeing if a double post can work, I'd also make sure you make it worth your time. Effectively, the contractor can install what you've required on your drawings, or he/she can pay you for your time to re-engineer and re-detail the design. If I can swing it, I'm not letting a contractor change my design for free.

 

[KootK]

I think there's an efficiency hit on the shear flow with built up sections and this particular version would probably be worse than most. Is the long dimension of the built up post perpendicular to the supported framing such that the applied load is delivered to both plies? If you're uncomfortable with what's there, you might ask for some flat plate shear connectors of some stripe at the joint.

 

[dik]

or in line with jd, have the contractor provide his own engineering report that shows it works... I've done that occasionally.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[phamENG]

dik - that was standard practice at my old firm. I don't do it anymore because I've found there's nearly always somebody, somewhere who will bank on it never seeing design loads to say "it's okay" for a few hundred bucks. Then it turns into a pissing match that I have to charge for or eat anyway and I'm the bad guy because everyone wants to believe the guy with the cheaper option.

 

[Rabbit12]

phamENG, that's my thought as well. This thread is a pretty good reminder that there are guys that have no problem doing little to nothing before sealing something.

https://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=481972

 

[Enable]

Just as a PSA: phamENG and Rabbit12 have it right. As a contractor I can assure you that every single contractor knows at least two engineers. One they go to when for one reason or another they know something needs to be properly engineered, and one who they call to stamp everything else. If it's already built you can bet the contractor is getting the latter to sign-off if you give them the option, and the problem is, they will sign off.

 

[dik]

I've not had that issue...but, a good point. I don't normally get involved with residential stuff...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[dhengr]

SteelPE:
This thread, this particular set of problems, is a good example of why it might be a good idea to include (write in) a couple of early inspections of the work into your contracts, maybe by type of work, found. work, wood framing, roof framing, etc. You can catch this junk early, and get it corrected when that can be done with limited damage, and you get to know what the builder can do and is doing in the way of following the plans, etc. I’ve found that if you inspect early and vigorously at first, you show you mean business, and are going to be reasonable, but also strict in insisting on conformance to the plans and specs. It is always a bitch to fix or change something after everything is done and buttoned up, so catch it early. It always staggers my imagination that the plans and details mean nothing to some builders, those plans and details are not even the way their Grandpa told them how to do it, years ago, and they’ve been doing it wrong ever since, without any apparent consequences. But, their Grandpa isn’t the one who signed the permit plans, either. When they didn’t follow your plans, you certainly should not have to design a fix to meet their mess, for no fee, and the Builder, Arch. and Owner should be informed of this. In fact, this general plan of action, on your part, should be discussed with the Arch. and Owner at the outset of the agreement for your involvement in the project.

 

[Agent666]

Well said dhengr.

A old wise engineer once told me, first thing you find wrong on a job make em break it out and fully replace it so they know you can't accept any old thing.... As opposed to accepting a lesser design (even if the numbers work out), the client should get what they paid for.

https://engineervsheep.com

 

[SteelPE]

Well, last week when I spoke to the architect, who my contract is through, he said that I should just keep track of my time and invoice accordingly.

The architect also tole me that everything would be fixed by Monday..... I went out there with the architect today and everything was being covered and not repaired. The GC just looked like a deer in someone's headlights. All he could say was that he was going to fix it, but again, that's what he told me on Thursday and the architect on Friday. It seems like they are just hacking their way through the repairs. I asked the architect about the possibility of getting the building official in the straighten this out and he was adamant that he was friends with the GC and has already looked at the framing and given it the green light to close up.

I mean, who frames a gable end wall like this (fyi there is no roof or floor on the opposite side of this gable end)?

We had shown full height studs "balloon framed", the PSL posts being full height and a steel column in the middle.

 

[XR250]

That is going to be a lot of work to fix!

 

[phamENG]

I mean, who frames a gable end wall like this (fyi there is no roof or floor on the opposite side of this gable end)?

Somebody who wants (or at least doesn't care about) a big, horizontal crack about 3 feet above their window and a wall that leans a bit and shakes back and forth when you slam the door.

Sounds like your architect needs some new friends. If it was built wrong, it was built wrong. He may have given the green light to close it up, but you know about, so you'll still be on the hook when it all falls apart.

 

[SteelPE]

The architect isn't friends with the GC, the building official is (I can see how you could interpret that from how I worded the response).

 

[dik]

no easy way to fix... and for that height, maybe an 8" or 10" light beam section for a column. I cannot imagine an engineer sealing that in lieu of a remedy.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[phamENG]

Ahh. I see. My apologies to the architect for questioning his judge of character.

In that case, I'd write a formal letter to the builder, the architect, the AHJ, and probably the owner. That way everyone knows and, if they all let it go forward, they can't say you didn't warn them...

 

[Enable]

In these circumstances I am usually much more forgiving than others because a) construction is a team sport and we all want to get things done at the end of the day, b) things generally don't fall down or fail even if it appears they should, and c) typically it's not so difficult to envision a retrofit that I don't hate. I also happen to be a contractor and understand the pain of falling short (despite the best of intentions)

However, my good nature is predicated on the GC or sub-trade or whoever having at least attempted in good-faith to reproduce my design intent. If you call for steel columns, and there isn't a stitch of steel in the wall, that's not good faith building. That's I don't giving a flying rats ass building. Know what? They get that kind of engineering in kind. Honest response: take the f***ing wall down. I would be unrelenting.

 

[Rabbit12]

Do you remove yourself as EOR for this project? I'd consider it for this one if they won't fix it.