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Luton Airport car park ablaze 8

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OK, my two cents ...

Regarding fire proofing of structural steel, I believe that it would be very rare to find any fireproofing of any "open-air" parking garages in the USA.!!! It is important to understand that the purpose of steel fireproofing is to buy time .... time for people to escape and time for the fire to become less intense.


As I recall, steel framed building failure under fire conditions is because of "loss of rigidity" (i.e. lower elastic modulus) as steel beams and columns heatup and are no longer aligned to their load path

Spray on fireproofing for masonry only structures makes no sense ... IMHO

More information about fireproofing here:


Ok, people ... come at me and tell me where I am wrong !!!

MJCronin
Sr. Process Engineer
 
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Agreed. Some of the comments clearly are underestimating the danger that fire poses to structural steel. If you have a big fire that is not contained in a building with unprotected steel it is just a matter of time. And you don't have a whole lot of it either. This building seems to have behaved mostly as you would expect in the circumstance of an extreme fire event.

There is plenty of information out there. But most experienced structural engineers should have had sufficient exposure to know that steel doesn't like fire.
Steel_strength_in_fire_jeddno.png

 
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The ICC codes requirement for sprinklers applies only to enclosed parking areas meeting a minimum area requirement. Fireproofing is not a replacement for fire sprinklers.
Screenshot_from_2023-10-15_14-37-49_sqmzy2.png

3. Where the fire area exceeds 48000 sq ft (4460 sq m)

Line 3 was added with the 2023 code, appears to acknowledge that given a large enough area an unacceptable risk exists even when car parks are unenclosed.

The fire protection afforded by the precast concrete often used for freestanding parking garages is a side effect of the inherent nature of concrete. However heated long enough it will eventually fail.
I think given a similar situation to this one the end result under US codes would be similar.

AISC discussion regarding Finishes, Coatings, and Fire Protection
AISC Design Guide 19: Fire Resistance of Structural Steel Framing
 
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It looks like the ICE vehicle that started the fire was a hybrid?
And the photos clearly show a battery fire from that vehicle.
One fellow on youtube posted a vehicle burning through the concrete at that structure. He also showed that gas or diesel won't burn hot enough to do that, but an Li battery does burn hot enough.
 
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enginesrus;

See post 14 oct 2023 @ 22:08 by BrianPeterson....

(If all else fails, read the instructions... Or previous posts.)

Your timestamp may differ...

Politicians like to panic, they need activity. It is their substitute for achievement.
 
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enginesrus said:
It looks like the ICE vehicle that started the fire was a hybrid?
And the photos clearly show a battery fire from that vehicle.
One fellow on youtube posted a vehicle burning through the concrete at that structure. He also showed that gas or diesel won't burn hot enough to do that, but an Li battery does burn hot enough.
Click to expand...

The number plate, visible in some photos and videos to be E10 EFL, is registered to a red 2014 Range Rover Sport TDV6 with a diesel engine. The vehicle visibly matches that description, so that makes sense. There was no hybrid or electric version of that vehicle available in 2014. It was therefore a diesel fire, and whatever that unknown poster wrote on youtube was a load of nonsense.
 
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There have been a few range rovers go up in flames in the last few years.

Apparently the turbos are cherry red if you don't idle them for 5 mins before turning off.

Late for flight giving it some Welly to get up the floors to find a space.

The standard oil leak which you get on all landrovers. Combined with Lucas electrics.
 
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You forgot to add British Leyland...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik
 
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Pud said:
Your timestamp may differ
Click to expand...
I have always assumed that all timestamps on this site are UTC, but I have only one timezone to do the calc for.[ ] Maybe someone more knowledgeable could confirm / deny this.

[ ]—————————————————————————————————
Engineering mathematician / analyst.[ ] See my profile for more details.
 
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I've always assumed times are local times. (I'm in the UK)

You could be correct. Timestamp on this post is GMT/UTC.


Politicians like to panic, they need activity. It is their substitute for achievement.
 
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FactEngrPE said:
Zooming in on the google street view, exterior steel bolt heads are showing. This indicates that the steel was not covered with fire proofing.
Click to expand...

No it doesn't. Exposed steel is almost always fireproofed with intumescent coatings. You can't use monokote or other similar products in exterior applications - those coatings are not robust against weather and they retain significant moisture, meaning in exterior applications they represent a large corrosion hazard.

You can achieve 2 hour fire ratings on exterior steel using sprayable coatings that are 35-40 mils thick.. ie they look exactly like a thick coat of paint.

 
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I think my previous post came across a little sharp. Not my intent, sorry for that.

I actually don't know if it's a code requirement, but I've done a fair amount of exposed structural steel and we always use sprayed on intumescent paint. I have yet to build one where it wasn't specified. Specified minimums for thickness are usually in the 35-50 mil range so it's pretty thin.
 
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From what's been posted above, it seems that the UK building regs only require 15 minute fire resistance for this type of building. Would that even need an intumescent coating?
 
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I have done several free standing steel parking structures in Australia. None had fireproofing of any kind, as it wasn't required. Possibly, this will be changed with more modern vehicles and experience. These steel carparks were exceptions, as most carparks in Australia are cast in place, posttensioned.
 
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Murph 9000 said:
From what's been posted above, it seems that the UK building regs only require 15 minute fire resistance for this type of building. Would that even need an intumescent coating?
Click to expand...
Generally not. Under the code I practice (AS4100), it is pretty easy to get over 15mins of structural adequacy in a fire. Harder to get over 20minutes. This isn't the British code but in my observation I would expect significant variations.

hokie66 said:
I have done several free standing steel parking structures in Australia. None had fireproofing of any kind, as it wasn't required. Possibly, this will be changed with more modern vehicles and experience. These steel carparks were exceptions, as most carparks in Australia are cast in place, posttensioned.
Click to expand...
While steel carparks aren't super common in Australia, they are one of the few steel structures that have deemed-to-satisfy provisions in the National Construction Code.

Meanwhile many other steel building you will have to have a suitable fire engineered solution. In my experience standalone industrial construction (in AUS) this can normally be achieved without fireproofing and without additional measure like sprinklers. But it does depend on a multitude of factors.
 
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Hokie66 said:
These steel carparks were exceptions, as most carparks in Australia are cast in place, posttensioned.
Click to expand...

I think actual steel parking structures in the US are relatively rare as well. In my neck of the woods the most common arrangement is either precast systems or cast in place PT columns/decks, with steel stairs.
 
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