I'm have an MSCE, and I got an offer of $55900 for an entry-level transportation engineer position. The job location is in Virginia. I have internship experience in civil engineering and I get really good grades. Is that a good offer? I'm not sure if I should take it or keep looking.
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Is this a good job offer? 1
- Thread starter juniormtz
- Start date
GeoPaveTraffic
Geotechnical
Only you can determine what is a "good" offer. Don't just look at dollars. How many hours do they expect? Do you get paid for hours over 40? Comptime? How much travel? What are the other benifits like? Do you want to live in VA? ...
Data point: 8 years ago I started with MSCE in a public-sector job in Texas for around $37k. My classmates headed for the private sector (various places in the US) were getting closer to $50k. That was 8 years ago. Sounds like your offer, adjusted for inflation, is roughly in the ballpark. But GeoPaveTraffic is right--you have to consider everything, not just $.
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376
msquared48
Structural
That's about comparable with a union truck driver here with a few years under his belt. Doesn't seem that bad considering the bennies too. You have to factor in the cost of living for the area though. It's all relative.
Mike McCann
McCann Engineering
Mike McCann
McCann Engineering
dicksewerrat
Civil/Environmental
Northern VA is pretty expensive cost of living. What kind of advancement can you expect?
Richard A. Cornelius, P.E.
Richard A. Cornelius, P.E.
GoldDredger
Civil/Environmental
- Jan 16, 2008
- 172
There are a couple of salary calculators you can use online. Some say they are a bit on the high side for employees, but you could at least get a ballpark. Salary.com, monster.com
You'll want to check the cost of living index, or even the median price of housing too, depending if you want to rent or own a house.
Other benefits to consider. 401k and/or ESOP for contributions and vesting schedule. Transportation allowance? How about signing bonus? Will they pay for you move to VA? Amount of vacation and paid holidays?
GL
You'll want to check the cost of living index, or even the median price of housing too, depending if you want to rent or own a house.
Other benefits to consider. 401k and/or ESOP for contributions and vesting schedule. Transportation allowance? How about signing bonus? Will they pay for you move to VA? Amount of vacation and paid holidays?
GL
Junior
Just my two cents. If do not currently have a job, $55,900 is better than $0.00. Unless you have other offers currently on the table, take the job. You never know if there is anything better around. And it isn't against the law to continue to look around while you work. As long as you aren't doing it on company time. IT is kind of like being married, you can always window shop, just don't buy.
Just my two cents. If do not currently have a job, $55,900 is better than $0.00. Unless you have other offers currently on the table, take the job. You never know if there is anything better around. And it isn't against the law to continue to look around while you work. As long as you aren't doing it on company time. IT is kind of like being married, you can always window shop, just don't buy.
With a masters degree and internship, you should look for something better than an entry level position.
You have not said where you are currently living. This is your opportunity to pick where you want to live.
It is also a good time to pick the field that you want to work in. Are you interested in transportation? Is that what you studied?
You have not said where you are currently living. This is your opportunity to pick where you want to live.
It is also a good time to pick the field that you want to work in. Are you interested in transportation? Is that what you studied?
For central Virginia and points south and west of Richmond, I think that would be very good for entry-level, even with an MSCE. For NOVA it may be low based on the cost of living. The money is nice, but you've got to look at what you will be doing and what your long-term opportunities are.
I agree with most of the posts - it's not the $$ but the cost of living that will get you. 5 years ago I lived in Petersburg (south of Richmond, VA) for about a year. There, $55+k would be GOOD money for an entry EIT. In Norfolk or Richmond it would be average; all places north, though, $55k would be "worth" much less... and $55k per year would leave you completely out of DC/Arlington unless you want to commute for about 1 1/2 hours each way.
I've used it with success in the past.
Good job on getting the Masters first. When you pass the PE exam & add 5-7 yrs experience, you can count on doubling that offer in Richmond/Norfolk & trippling it in DC/Arlington.
MEM1's advice is the best I've seen: take the job now & look around for the next 1 to 2 years; if you are any good at your job, you'll be in the $70k's before you know it!
I've used it with success in the past.
Good job on getting the Masters first. When you pass the PE exam & add 5-7 yrs experience, you can count on doubling that offer in Richmond/Norfolk & trippling it in DC/Arlington.
MEM1's advice is the best I've seen: take the job now & look around for the next 1 to 2 years; if you are any good at your job, you'll be in the $70k's before you know it!
- Thread starter
- #11
Thanks for all the advice. Sorry, I didn't mention the other benefits (they're pretty much the industry average for everything, nothing to write home about). Yes, the job is in the northern VA, with some work in DC. Just browsing the housing in that area, the living costs do seem like a lot. I'm from the West Coast, so I guess I'm used to the high living costs.
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1
- #12
bimr-
How do you get something better than entry level when the only experience you have is an internship? There is no way a master's and an internship gets you out of entry level. I am in a grad program now, with only 1.5 years under my belt and these kids have NO IDEA WHATSOEVER about practical engineering. Everything is still theory to them. It's not that way in the real world.
drkgray-
You are right. If you are good at your job and want to move around, you can jump up in salary pretty quickly. If you happen to land a great job right out of school, however, you are a little limited. That happened to me. I got a pretty awesome job right out of school, and it would take a lot more than a 20% or 30% increase in pay to get me to leave. Since leaving is the way you get the BIG salary increases, it looks like I'm doomed to the 7%-9% per year from the same company.
How do you get something better than entry level when the only experience you have is an internship? There is no way a master's and an internship gets you out of entry level. I am in a grad program now, with only 1.5 years under my belt and these kids have NO IDEA WHATSOEVER about practical engineering. Everything is still theory to them. It's not that way in the real world.
drkgray-
You are right. If you are good at your job and want to move around, you can jump up in salary pretty quickly. If you happen to land a great job right out of school, however, you are a little limited. That happened to me. I got a pretty awesome job right out of school, and it would take a lot more than a 20% or 30% increase in pay to get me to leave. Since leaving is the way you get the BIG salary increases, it looks like I'm doomed to the 7%-9% per year from the same company.
I agree with DMcGrath: 7-9% is a great, non-bonus raise. I've worked predominantly with municipal govs or on Federal contracts (outside of military)... very little private industry experience (<3 years). I'd have turned cartwheels if I'd have received 9% raises... The best gov offers is 3.5% annually - hence my laundry list of relocations hunting the big $$s. The grass is always greener...
Around here, the master's degree just means you come in as EIT II instead of EIT I. Slightly higher salary, and according to the state board, one year less to wait till taking the PE.
What it really seems to mean in the civil/structural sector, based on the recruitment I saw at my school, is that you can aim for entry-level positions at hotter firms than you could with just the bachelor's.
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376
What it really seems to mean in the civil/structural sector, based on the recruitment I saw at my school, is that you can aim for entry-level positions at hotter firms than you could with just the bachelor's.
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376
often, entry level engineers (with or without the masters or internship) come in at lower salaries and after a couple years get significant, large promotions/raises. Other companies try to compete with this strategy by offering higher starting salaries. What they don't tell the new hires is that they will not be getting the large promo/raise after 2 years that the other guys get. The only way to determine if your offer is one of these is to talk to others at the company that have been there for a couple of years.
StructuralEIT
It is common to get a better position if you have an advanced degree. The masters degree is equivalent to the bachelor degree + 1-2 years experience.
I agree with your arguement regarding practical engineering. Most engineers with as little as 5 years experience are now calling themselves senior engineers when all the experience that they possess is being able to locate the corporate washroom.
It is common to get a better position if you have an advanced degree. The masters degree is equivalent to the bachelor degree + 1-2 years experience.
I agree with your arguement regarding practical engineering. Most engineers with as little as 5 years experience are now calling themselves senior engineers when all the experience that they possess is being able to locate the corporate washroom.
I would tend to agree with the idea that candidates with advanced degrees get better positions, but at the end of the day it still has to be an entry level position.
The things you learn as an entry level engineer don't get taught in any level of engineering education - How to compile/organize drawings, how to draw and engineer details, writing general notes, smoothing beam sizes from a plan output from a program that optimizes every beam, etc.. (I could probably make a list half a mile long).
There is no doubt that an advanced degree gives you more technical knowledge (an extra year of school), but I am not sure that extra year of school correlates a bachelor's plus 1-2 years of experience, I think it correlates more to an extra year of school.
Additionally, (and this is just my opinion) getting your feet wet with real engineering before getting a graduate degree is the way to go. It gives you a context in which you can correlate what you learn to real world problems (on a current project or see how it could have been useful on a past project) and this ability to see the true value in something is when it really sinks in.
The kid who gets a grad degree right after the bachelor's comes into the firm and spends his/her time learning the ropes of the firm (see the laundry list above) while those advanced topics creep farther to the back of his/her mind.
The things you learn as an entry level engineer don't get taught in any level of engineering education - How to compile/organize drawings, how to draw and engineer details, writing general notes, smoothing beam sizes from a plan output from a program that optimizes every beam, etc.. (I could probably make a list half a mile long).
There is no doubt that an advanced degree gives you more technical knowledge (an extra year of school), but I am not sure that extra year of school correlates a bachelor's plus 1-2 years of experience, I think it correlates more to an extra year of school.
Additionally, (and this is just my opinion) getting your feet wet with real engineering before getting a graduate degree is the way to go. It gives you a context in which you can correlate what you learn to real world problems (on a current project or see how it could have been useful on a past project) and this ability to see the true value in something is when it really sinks in.
The kid who gets a grad degree right after the bachelor's comes into the firm and spends his/her time learning the ropes of the firm (see the laundry list above) while those advanced topics creep farther to the back of his/her mind.
I participate in interviewing engineering candidates on a frequent basis. I also supervise a number of younger engineers. Regardless of the number of years of education, a new graduate comes in as an entry level engineer. Salary and subsequent promotions may be greater for the higher level of education. However, I still need to spend a great deal of time working with entry level engineers to bring them up to speed. A higher level of education does not automatically mean that the come up to speed faster. In fact, sometimes just the opposite. However, I have noticed that PhD's generally are better at conducting studies, writing reports and in giving presentations than undergrads.
Are you saying that you would treat a PHD as an entry level engineer?
If that is the case, then why would anyone spend the extra money to get a PHD.
Here is an actual ad:
"An advanced business-related degree or advanced engineering degree may be substituted for related work experience (MBA 1 to 2 years, MS 1 to 2 years or PhD 1 to 3 years)."
Here is another ad:
"DESCRIPTORS
Pay band 1
Entry/Intern/Developmental positions. Employees carry out engineering and scientific assignments using basic principles, concepts and methodology of the occupation. Work is designed to provide the competencies, skills and experiences needed to perform pay band 2 work. This level is not considered Full-Performance/Journey level for occupations in this pay schedule.
Pay band 2
Full-Performance/Journey level positions. The employee is an experienced worker who has gained competencies and skills either by work experience at pay band 1 or through relevant graduate study and/or experience. The employee carries out assignments independently. This level is appropriate for most installation and headquarters positions in DoD occupations in this pay schedule"
The point is that a graduate degree is usually enough to bump you up to the next level. You might argue that a person with a graduate degree does not know anything, but the marketplace is still going to offer the person with a graduate degree something better than an entry level position.
If that is the case, then why would anyone spend the extra money to get a PHD.
Here is an actual ad:
"An advanced business-related degree or advanced engineering degree may be substituted for related work experience (MBA 1 to 2 years, MS 1 to 2 years or PhD 1 to 3 years)."
Here is another ad:
"DESCRIPTORS
Pay band 1
Entry/Intern/Developmental positions. Employees carry out engineering and scientific assignments using basic principles, concepts and methodology of the occupation. Work is designed to provide the competencies, skills and experiences needed to perform pay band 2 work. This level is not considered Full-Performance/Journey level for occupations in this pay schedule.
Pay band 2
Full-Performance/Journey level positions. The employee is an experienced worker who has gained competencies and skills either by work experience at pay band 1 or through relevant graduate study and/or experience. The employee carries out assignments independently. This level is appropriate for most installation and headquarters positions in DoD occupations in this pay schedule"
The point is that a graduate degree is usually enough to bump you up to the next level. You might argue that a person with a graduate degree does not know anything, but the marketplace is still going to offer the person with a graduate degree something better than an entry level position.
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