cracks on basement wall

[DoubleStud]

I get phone calls all of the time from agents or home owner or buyer about cracks in the basement wall. Probably it was noted on the inspection report and the inspector probably wrote to consult professional engineer regarding the crack. What do you typically do? Is this easy money or something to avoid? I have been rejecting them. What do you typically do?

 

[XR250]

Easy money for me.
I look at the crack pattern/size and wall plumbness to determine if it is settlement (not usually), shrinkage or the wall bulging at mid-height or the top kicking in.
I also consider the age of the house and neighborhood.
My report is usually either "monitor and improve surface runoff" or add some soldier beams/carbon fiber strips.
Had a few recently with 12 ft. of backfill that pushed the floor system out the back of the building. They were repaired with tie-backs.

 

[JAE]

We try to avoid.
Whatever we might say in an engineering report, the risk is higher than our other projects that something further will develop that is "bad" and cause the homeowner to start looking for scapegoats.

 

[DoubleStud]

Yeah JAE, this what I was thinking. After I do many of these, one may require me to go to a litigation or something. Nobody will pay my time for that probably.

 

[Mark_J]

A failing basement wall in a home deserves some engineering just like a contractor who puts #4 bars instead of #8.

 

[lexpatrie]

If you aren't in the mood to do them, you can always do the "that's not my bag, man" approach and thank them for the call.

Most of the time I've dealt with this it's production homes built close together and then somebody runs a bulldozer between the two before the floor is in place (or after) and that's where you see the cracking (inside/tension face) due to soil pressure.

I've seen a lot of repairs "done" on paper, but I'm also, conversely, not aware of any established testing that routing out the grout and redoing it restores the required strength, if you want go down the "well-established principles of mechanics" route. (someday I'll have that phrase committed to memory, until then, there's the downloads folder on my computer.....).

I think the track record for engineers (speaking candidly) on assessing imminent collapse isn't fantastic. Cough Davenport Cough. FIU. Maybe it's a problem with the engineers doing the site visits, maybe it's a global "it ain't shaking so it's fine" complacency. Haven't decided. Would be tempting to go all ego and think it's a problem with the engineers in question and I'd never make that sort of mistake.

On the residential side, there's some stray lumber in the way like sill plates and double top plates and wall finish, and some of these walls are non-bearing besides the soil, so they don't always cause "total loss", anyway. There was a discussion somewhere on the board this fall after that low-rise gravity dam got bypassed in Minnesota, with a house hanging partly off the eroded riverbank.

 

[phamENG]

What do you typically do?

Depends on how hungry I am. If I have lots of design work, I turn this sort of thing down. If I've got free time, I'll take these sorts of projects. We don't really have many basements around here, though, so it's usually just cracks in walls and "the foundation repair company said I need $30k of helical piles!". No, you just need an extra 2x10 in the crawl space and replace a couple full sheets of drywall.

These sorts of projects never really go away. If you can be "the guy" everyone calls for these, you're nearly recession proof. Back in 2008 when engineers were dropping flies, the firm I used to work for never laid anyone off because the owner was snatching these jobs up wherever he could find him and forcing everyone to swallow their pride and crawl around under houses. They're not much fun, but it's better than going bankrupt.

 

[XR250]

I use them as another excuse to get out of the office. Been doing them for 25 years or more and have never had any legal trouble.

 

[Eng16080]

I don't consider this desirable work, but I have no issue doing it if I'm not otherwise busy. These types of jobs tend to have a higher non-payment risk, and for that reason we've occasionally asked for payment up-front.

A lot of the time (probably the majority) there's a miniscule crack in an otherwise excellent wall and little reason for concern. Other times, I've seen walls seemingly on the brink of collapse. Most issues stem from water problems (inadequate drainage). Diverting runoff, including adding gutters if possible, is a simple measure which won't necessarily fix a damaged wall, but should reduce the risk of future problems.

In some cases, where there are significant problems, this type of job can lead to more work where a potential fix is designed.

These jobs also seem to be a rush more often than not as they typically stem from a concerned potential home-buyer trying to quickly decide if they want to purchase the property. In the realty world it seems everything is always a frantic, crazed rush for some reason (probably by design). A few times, I've had a realtor try to persuade me that the issue wasn't as bad as it seemed.

 

[XR250]

These types of jobs tend to have a higher non-payment risk, and for that reason we've occasionally asked for payment up-front.

That has not been my experience with these jobs or residential or my practice in general. My default rate is miniscule - averaging under 0.2%

 

[Eng16080]

That has not been my experience with these jobs or residential or my practice in general. My default rate is miniscule - averaging under 0.2%

To be fair, this only happened a few times, but definitely more than 0.2%. Another person at the company did have the habit of starting projects with only a vague, verbal agreement and I think this was a big part of the problem. We did have one client who somehow thought it was ridiculous that we were charging them $90 for a short site visit. They though it should have been $20. This was also 5 years ago, not the early 1900s. Another good one, somebody thought the $500 fee to inspect a foundation issue would include the cost of the repair! (Not to go off on a tangent.)

 

[XR250]

Letting them know up-front the estimated cost def. helps. Most of the time, my payment conflicts arise when I forget to do this.

 

[DoubleStud]

Man, my notification setting needs to be updated. When they updated the website, I was bombarded with emails. I changed a few things. Now I don't see notifications on my post replies . Thanks all. Maybe I will think about the game plan if when someone calls me again. XR, how much money are we talking about here? Let's say 30 min drive total, no more than 1 hour visit, write report for less than 1 hour? $500?

 

[XR250]

Depends. For a report saying just monitor it, I charge $685. $450 for a site visit (usually 20-30 minutes for these) and $235 for a one page report sans pics.
I am out and about enough that I usually combine these with other trips to make them more profitable.
Repair plans start at $920 (site visit and 2 hours design/drafting)

 

[lexpatrie]

These jobs also seem to be a rush more often than not as they typically stem from a concerned potential home-buyer trying to quickly decide if they want to purchase the property. In the realty world it seems everything is always a frantic, crazed rush for some reason (probably by design). A few times, I've had a realtor try to persuade me that the issue wasn't as bad as it seemed.

Commission. Especially in December when the compensation tier is about to reset. They want it in this year not the next one.

DoubleStud - I tend to give estimates as a range rather than a specific value. That way if it comes in at or below the maximum range of the estimate it feels less likely to be a discussion.

 

[ANE91]

If you aren't in the mood to do them, you can always do the "that's not my bag, man" approach and thank them for the call.

Most of the time I've dealt with this it's production homes built close together and then somebody runs a bulldozer between the two before the floor is in place (or after) and that's where you see the cracking (inside/tension face) due to soil pressure.

I've seen a lot of repairs "done" on paper, but I'm also, conversely, not aware of any established testing that routing out the grout and redoing it restores the required strength, if you want go down the "well-established principles of mechanics" route. (someday I'll have that phrase committed to memory, until then, there's the downloads folder on my computer.....).

I think the track record for engineers (speaking candidly) on assessing imminent collapse isn't fantastic. Cough Davenport Cough. FIU. Maybe it's a problem with the engineers doing the site visits, maybe it's a global "it ain't shaking so it's fine" complacency. Haven't decided. Would be tempting to go all ego and think it's a problem with the engineers in question and I'd never make that sort of mistake.

On the residential side, there's some stray lumber in the way like sill plates and double top plates and wall finish, and some of these walls are non-bearing besides the soil, so they don't always cause "total loss", anyway. There was a discussion somewhere on the board this fall after that low-rise gravity dam got bypassed in Minnesota, with a house hanging partly off the eroded riverbank.


View attachment 2512

A few years ago, I saw a CMU basement wall completely cave inward under soil pressure. I expected the first floor platform to follow. It immediately sagged, severely, but did not collapse. There was enough load redistribution to hold it in precarious place. It sat like that for a few months before the homeowners could scrounge up the cash to pay a contractor to fix it.

I can’t get clients to differentiate between imminent = tomorrow and imminent = within a few years. My new go-to response is, “I don’t know when it’s coming down, but it’s definitely coming down, and you should not be under it when it does!”