California high speed rail 3

[hokie66]

Not sure if this is a failure or disaster, but it's a boondoggle.

Trump admin pulls plug on $4B for California's 'train to nowhere' project

U.S. Transportation Department cancels $4 billion for California's high-speed rail after review found zero miles of track laid in 10 years and ballooning costs.

www.foxbusiness.com

 

[dik]

According to Wikipedia, 57% of China's electricity in 2020 was generated by coal, and that percentage is growing.

Coal, diesel... it's still fossil fuel with a carbon footprint.

 

[Garbage1]

"China is the world's largest electricity producer, generating approximately 30% of the global electricity supply, primarily from coal, which accounted for 62% of its electricity generation in 2021. However, renewable energy sources are rapidly increasing, with over half of its installed capacity coming from renewables as of 2023."

The graphic below shows growth of coal electricity production out paces all other sources.

 

[Garbage1]

Coal, diesel... it's still fossil fuel with a carbon footprint.

We are all carbon footprints. But all carbon footprints are not equal.

 

[MechinNC]

The problem with HSR America is not so much how fast the train can go, but the first and last mile(s). In the States, cities and population are pretty spread out.

You have to arrange transportation from your home to the station, park the car, deal with an Uber, etc. Gots to show up at the station somewhat in advance to avoid missing it. Then the train takes two or three hours to go north. Then at that station, gots to again get ground transport (friend, rental car, uber, etc). Second ground hassle might be an hour or two.

So total it up: 2hr get to station. 3hr in train. 2hrs station to destination. 7hrs total. Plus all the associated costs (Uber, parking, train ticket, rental car, etc)

Or you can drive your own car. 6.5hr total and your car shows up WITH YOU, with what ever crap you want to throw in it. Cost about 60bucks for fuel, some wear and tear on the car. Get to listen to what you want, no crowds.

When I traveled a lot, my threshold was about 12hr drive. More than that, consider flying. Consider... 12hr, I would probably drive.

Also, what does HSR have as advantage over flying for that route?? Riddle me that!! Commercial air travel is roughly 50mpg on a per seat basis (varies a lot). That is pretty hard to beat.

BooooooonDoooogle.

 

[TugboatEng]

How much jet fuel do you think it will take to offset the CO2 and pollution footprint of the infrastructure required to build HSR?

 

[MechinNC]

From post #42: China has "half of installed capacity from renewables as of 2023". Gots to put a critical eye on this term "installed capacity". Since those sources are by nature periodic (wind and solar), if you want to do a decent analysis, you need to break the sources out by total generation, not installed capacity. Geez.

 

[GregLocock]

Or you an look at total enrgy by source, coalwas still going up as of 2024 but due to GDP I suspect it'll drop this year

 

[dtimberlake]

"Not investing for tomorrow is way worse then saving money just for today."

Spending is not automatically "investing".
I don't consider someone else throwing a bag of my money into a garbage chute "investing".
Throwing another bag down the same chute every couple of years even less so.

Some entities' projects have actually been completed on time, and occasionally even under budget.
I think if I'd said "non-governmental entities' projects" the list of under budget projects would probably be the same.

A "fixed price quote" is usually substantially more $$ than a "quote" and for good reason.
Sometimes the FPQ is the bargain.

 

[dik]

The graphic below shows growth of coal electricity production out paces all other sources.

You notice how the renewables are gaining...

 

[Garbage1]

Greg's updated 2025 chart posted above, makes it clear, oil and coal electricity generation/production are growing at significantly higher rate than renewable production in China.

More high speed rails means more clearing of CO2 absorbers, thus less earth capacity to pull carbon out of atmosphere.

And all that manufacturing, contruction and environmental land destruction is accomplished by atmospheric carbon producers.

Life is Carbon Based. Eliminate Humans, and a lot less carbon is removed from ground and vented into atmosphere, and the vegetation will take over and reclaim earth!

 

[thebard3]

The problem with HSR America is not so much how fast the train can go, but the first and last mile(s). In the States, cities and population are pretty spread out.

You have to arrange transportation from your home to the station, park the car, deal with an Uber, etc. Gots to show up at the station somewhat in advance to avoid missing it. Then the train takes two or three hours to go north. Then at that station, gots to again get ground transport (friend, rental car, uber, etc). Second ground hassle might be an hour or two.

So total it up: 2hr get to station. 3hr in train. 2hrs station to destination. 7hrs total. Plus all the associated costs (Uber, parking, train ticket, rental car, etc)

Or you can drive your own car. 6.5hr total and your car shows up WITH YOU, with what ever crap you want to throw in it. Cost about 60bucks for fuel, some wear and tear on the car. Get to listen to what you want, no crowds.

When I traveled a lot, my threshold was about 12hr drive. More than that, consider flying. Consider... 12hr, I would probably drive.

Also, what does HSR have as advantage over flying for that route?? Riddle me that!! Commercial air travel is roughly 50mpg on a per seat basis (varies a lot). That is pretty hard to beat.

BooooooonDoooogle.

I can drive from Cincinnati to Cleveland in 4 hours without speeding (3-1/2 hours, the way I drive). Ohio's last attempt to get funding for 'HSR' was for one-way time of around 6 hours, and cost around $3 billion. Past experience tells me the real numbers would be significantly slower and significantly more expensive.

 

[thebard3]

Pothole repair is a local funding item, right? Federal rail funds would not go to local roads regardless of HSR happening or not. Or are they all connected somehow?

'Pothole' repair funding is apparently being spent on something else, and not on paying for damage to cars that run afoul of them either.