California high speed rail

[hokie66]

Not sure if this is a failure or disaster, but it's a boondoggle.

Trump admin pulls plug on $4B for California's 'train to nowhere' project

U.S. Transportation Department cancels $4 billion for California's high-speed rail after review found zero miles of track laid in 10 years and ballooning costs.

www.foxbusiness.com

 

[spsalso]

Electrify what? HSR? That was just another hurdle added so that they spend more money on studies and not have to buy anything. There never was anything to electrify.

No. Electrify the commute line from San Jose to San Francisco. The "reason" for electrifying it with HSR money was so HSR could enter San Francisco. Fair enough, IF it were to do so. However, it still ain't connected two small Central Valley (no offense meant, guys--I like the Valley!) towns.

By doing that, the expense for electrification of a commuter line was distributed to the state and to the feds.

The new system is now up and running, just barely in time to accept the new HSR trains in, what, 20 years? Maybe? Or not?


spsalso

 

[TugboatEng]

20 years? Cal Train has 71 at grade crossings.

How many stops are they planning to have? Disability laws in CA have doomed every other form of public transit in CA. Busses that have to stop every 300 feet aren't very practical.

 

[Brian Malone]

I have thought having an option to flying or driving my car to L.A. or San Francisco would be great but now that I have read these articles I am more convinced California high-speed rail was doomed from the start. My usage/ridership would have been on a casual convenience basis and not daily but that type of usage would not make the system pencil out and with the contraction of the proposed initial track route, I don't see how the daily ridership would have made the finances work.

Governor, legislators won’t budge in high-speed rail dispute

Gov. Gavin Newsom and California lawmakers have different opinions on what the next steps for the state's high-speed rail project should be.

calmatters.org

The Long, Sad History of American Attempts to Build High-Speed Rail, Part I

California has received its fair share of criticism for the trajectory of its high-speed rail project.

www.construction-physics.com

The Long, Sad History of American Attempts to Build High-Speed Rail, Part II

Last week, we looked at the early history of high-speed rail in the US.

www.construction-physics.com

 

[dik]

...and the Chinese will build another 10,000 miles. They're working on 600 kmph maglevs... They are electric and clean.

 

[spsalso]

My usage/ridership would have been on a casual convenience basis and not daily but that type of usage would not make the system pencil out and with the contraction of the proposed initial track route, I don't see how the daily ridership would have made the finances work.

Seems like the kind of thing that would have been worked out before the go button was pushed.

Perhaps someone can source those documents.


spsalso

 

[Brian Malone]

I have to dig around to find the projected ridership numbers but I will be surprised if the Initial Operating Segment (IOS) would have penciled out. Merced to Bakersfield does not scream prime destination cities for California. It seems to me the only way this system coulld have worked dollar-wise would have been to go all-in and build the S.F. Bay to L.A. route.

https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article299800564.html

 

[davidbeach]

If nothing else, Merced to Bakersfield solves (would have solved) the problems with the San Joaquins running down Dana Street in Fresno. That would be useful, but doesn't require all of that new alignment.

 

[Garbage1]

...and the Chinese will build another 10,000 miles. They're working on 600 kmph maglevs... They are electric and clean.

According to Wikipedia, 57% of China's electricity in 2020 was generated by coal, and that percentage is growing.

More electric trains means more new coal fired electricity generation, thus more production from coal vs cleaner alternatives like natural gas.

Once again, the so called Greenies never look at life cycle impacts when citing something is wonderful for the environment.

Coal power in China - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[TugboatEng]

...and the Chinese will build another 10,000 miles. They're working on 600 kmph maglevs... They are electric and clean.

LOL, they're literally powered by coal.

 

[spsalso]

...and the Chinese will build another 10,000 miles. They're working on 600 kmph maglevs... They are electric and clean.

And their last mainline steam operation ceased in 2005--steppin' right along, folks.

 

[MintJulep]

Studies don't require bidding, right?

Wrong.

A contract to do a study is a contract, like any other.

They are bid like any other.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Does anyone know of a rail project which hasn't had all these issues?

UK HS2 similar issues

Baltic rail complete mess.

I think its a dead tech due legal reasons in the 1st world.

 

[LittleInch]

Kind of depends on many things such as
Topography,
Current land use,
population density,
Perceived benefits
Planning laws,
Environmental laws,
Desire to have the link or is it not a benefit
Strength of local authorities / landowners
Type of government (China does it differently....)

France managed to do it ok, but then lots of the land is sparely populated and the French system is very centralised.
Plus they did it a few decades ago....

 

[ghostdigital]

Not sure if this is a failure or disaster, but it's a boondoggle.

Trump admin pulls plug on $4B for California's 'train to nowhere' project

U.S. Transportation Department cancels $4 billion for California's high-speed rail after review found zero miles of track laid in 10 years and ballooning costs.

www.foxbusiness.com

Definitely a political hit piece with that headline... I've ridden high speed rail in Japan and have been to California many times.

California needs rapid transportation seriously bad. Not investing for tomorrow is way worse then saving money just for today.

 

[TugboatEng]

We already have an extensive network of rapid transportation in California. It uses airplanes that ride on renewable, low maintenance air.

 

[pellucidar]

Does anyone know of a rail project which hasn't had all these issues?

The MBTA commuter rail has managed to expand several times over former rail right-of-ways. It takes longer than expected, but it does happen quicker than the 20 years it took to build a legally-mandated light-rail expansion closer to the city (Boston). Both styles of project have had the advantage of a lot of former rail right-of-ways in the area that haven't been significantly built over.