Cripple Wall/Pony Wall Above Beam?
Cripple Wall/Pony Wall Above Beam?
(OP)
In residential construction I seem to remember there being a prescriptive requirement to place pony walls underneath beams, not on top of them. This makes sense to me in that the by placing them above a beam it can form a hinge. But I can't find current requirement addressing this issue. If there is such a current requirement I would love to be able to point to it to avoid having to prove that it's anything other than just my opinion. Does anyone know of such? Or have any other comments on this topic? Thanks.
RE: Cripple Wall/Pony Wall Above Beam?
RE: Cripple Wall/Pony Wall Above Beam?
That being said, I rarely see an issue with beams with unbraced tops in residential construction.
RE: Cripple Wall/Pony Wall Above Beam?
Yes, that's exactly what I mean. However, in this case the "header" isn't a door opening; it's the opening for a garage, two cars wide, with two floors and a roof bearing down on it. The "header" is a steel beam and there is a 2' stud wall above it. I'm not involved in the project but I know people who are. I would like to provide them with a quick clean reference on the issue if such a thing existed. My understanding is that the state of Virginia used to specifically disallow it in their code but perhaps I'm wrong. I can't seem to find it in there now.
RE: Cripple Wall/Pony Wall Above Beam?
Yes, I agree. And this case seems to be well beyond something I would feel comfortable with. But, not being directly involved in the project there doesn't seem to be much I can do other than to suggest that the homeowner consult with the engineer of record, assuming there is one.
RE: Cripple Wall/Pony Wall Above Beam?
I don’t know if there is a prescriptive code requirement one way or another, but it is common sense engineering that you must pay attention to the fact that you might be introducing a hinge condition, and must design to account for that. There should be no problem taking vert. loads or lateral loads in the plane of the pony wall. And, that’s as far as most builders think of the problem. But, you have to take the lateral loads perpendicular to that wall another way. If we both have the same definition of pony wall, I’ve seen the problem more often as follows: a five or six course conc, blk. found. wall, with a 4' high stud wall on top of the blk. to the 1st. fl. framing. And, this produces a hinge at the mid height of the found. wall. Basically, the conc. blk. wall cantilevers from the footing to retrain soil pressure, or other lateral loads.
RE: Cripple Wall/Pony Wall Above Beam?
I would also tend to agree with Excel that in general you don't see many issues either way.
I believe there was a post about which is the better detail a short while ago with some information. I'll see if I can find it.
EIT
www.HowToEngineer.com
RE: Cripple Wall/Pony Wall Above Beam?
Even with 2 floors and a roof, why can't a glulam or Parallam header calc out?
RE: Cripple Wall/Pony Wall Above Beam?
RE: Cripple Wall/Pony Wall Above Beam?
AELLC, as for using a glulam or parallam, well, it's not my project and I'm not involved. Someone asked what I thought of the configuration, which isn't much, incidentally. He seems to no longer be concerned so I'm backing out of it, other than for purposes of professional knowledge of the situation. I sure wouldn't design it that way but I don't suppose whoever's project it is much cares what I think about it in any case.
Thanks again.