Welding to 1898 era steel 1

[Engrman]

A client wants to add canopies to his building. The canopies would be attaching to steel lintels supporting multi-wythe brick walls. The lintels consist of two 12"x20.5 'C' shapes with 3/8'' plates top & bot. According to historical records construction was completed in 1898. The earliest ASTM spec I can find is ASTM A9, dated 1900. It lists Fy=35 ksi and Fu=60 ksi for 'Medium' Steel. Should I spec 60xx welds?

 

[ishvaaag]

Not knowing the weldability of the metal you will be working in the blind. Only if the forces are relatively small should one tackle the issue this way, I think. Are the plates of the Cs welded, or taken to angles with rivets?

 

[Engrman]

ishvaaag, plates are riveted to flanges of C's. Lintel forms a box. Will be welding to web of C's

 

[NS4U]

get a chemisty test done- it costs like $100 then you'll know exactly what to spec

 

[dik]

Best to get coupons cut and tested for chem content. Some early stuff can be wrought iron or even cast iron. I can post a CE spreadsheet that I've put together for other projects.

Dik

 

[unclesyd]

A quick test is to weld a CS tab perpendicular (1 1/2 x 1 1/2") to the

web and try to break it off. Try a few licks the hard way and then bend

it off the easy way, it should break in the weld.

If you have and feel inclined here is a CS electrode (Cronotron 321, not SS) that I've used to weld some vary old and crappy steels, The welder will love it and probably take any leftovers home.

http://www.lawsonproducts.com/webap...Search=WELDING+PRODUCTS////WELDING+ELECTRODES

 

[Engrman]

Dik, I would appreciate that spreadsheet. Thanks a bunch guys

 

[gtaw]

The weldability can vary from one member to the next. They had no need to control carbon, sulfur, or phosphorous when everything was riveted.

You should have a chemical analysis performed on a sample of each member that is going to be welded to ensure the carbon equivalency is relatively low and the S and P are below 0.04% to minimize hot cracking problems.

You can deal with sulfur is you make sure the manganese content of the weld is 10 times higher than the sulfur content of the steel. I don’t know of an easy fix for excessive P other than to use low hydrogen practices, i.e., E7018 that has been stored in a heated electrode oven.


Best regards - Al

 

[jike]

I would first be concerned about the condition of the lintel. In that age building, it may have significant corrosion.

Secondly, I agree that you need some chemical analysis to find out if it is weldable, but welding a tab to it and see if you can break it off will undoubtly tell you more.

 

[dik]

Engrman attached...

 

[Engrman]

jike, the lintel is in excellent condition. No corrosion anywhere. This is in a semi-arid enviroment. I agree with welding the tab.

 

[unclesyd]

Aside from the tab in my previous post there is an even quicker test, though much more severe. That is to weld a 1" dia (inside) circle using one or two circuits depending on how severe you want to be.

 

[dik]

I've used nickel based electrodes for welding cast materials in past... I'll try to dig up a procedure.

Dik

 

[PMR06]

Is the lintel hollow behind the proposed weld location? If so, you could drill and bolt using Hollo-Bolts (no, I don't work for Lindapter)

http://www.lindapterna.com/index.php?pid=index_prod_info&A=DET&P=Type HB

 

[bridgebuster]

I second the use of Hollo-Bolts; they work well. Many years ago I worked for an old timer - who started out in the 30's as a welder - he was adamantly opposed to welding to turn-of-the-century/early 20th C. steel. He would say it wasn't unusual to hit a carbon pocket and blow a hole in the steel.