-
4
- #1
Please, read this and send him e-mail.
Thanks.
Mike
Thanks.
Mike
Tek-Tips is the largest IT community on the Internet today!
Members share and learn making Tek-Tips Forums the best source of peer-reviewed technical information on the Internet!
-
Congratulations cowski on being selected by the Eng-Tips community for having the most helpful posts in the forums last week. Way to Go!
Tell him that he is wrong about Engineers. Send e-mail. 13
- Thread starter whymrg
- Start date
-
1
- #2
The term "engineer" is inappropriatly used in this instance. A better and more accurtate term should be "fanatic", a term not used by John Hall simply because it hits too close to home. Fanatics are not all found in the middle east. Some of them mascarade as journallists!
Indeed, John Hall does the honorable and age old profession of of engineer a great disservice.
Always on guard for extremists, no matter what their pashion or profession.
Rod
Indeed, John Hall does the honorable and age old profession of of engineer a great disservice.
Always on guard for extremists, no matter what their pashion or profession.
Rod
-
6
- #5
I couldn't let the article go without a response. I sent the following email to Mr. Hall (I signed the email to Mr. Hall, but have not included my signature here in keeping with the anonimity of the forum)...
"Mr. Hall,
I take great exception to your characterization of those murderous bastards as "Engineers". While I clearly understand your point, in its presentation you have managed to malign an honorable profession that is duty bound to protect the health, safety, and welfare of the public.
Those you mention did not "engineer" anything....they plotted and connived to maim and kill innocent people in the interest of their own zealotry.
You, sir, owe all Engineers an apology. Perhaps you can conceive one as you sit safely in your office within a structure that was carefully designed by an Engineer or perhaps while driving to your office on a roadway that was designed by an Engineer, in a vehicle that was also designed by Engineers."
"Mr. Hall,
I take great exception to your characterization of those murderous bastards as "Engineers". While I clearly understand your point, in its presentation you have managed to malign an honorable profession that is duty bound to protect the health, safety, and welfare of the public.
Those you mention did not "engineer" anything....they plotted and connived to maim and kill innocent people in the interest of their own zealotry.
You, sir, owe all Engineers an apology. Perhaps you can conceive one as you sit safely in your office within a structure that was carefully designed by an Engineer or perhaps while driving to your office on a roadway that was designed by an Engineer, in a vehicle that was also designed by Engineers."
Wow, I live in Richmond, so this is my hometown paper. I can't believe what this guy wrote! I don't think he intended to harm the entire engineering profession, but he has. Everyone has been talking about not discriminating against American Muslims or Arab-Americans, so this guy is instead discriminating against engineers! Never thought I would see the day.
I sent him an email - I suspect he'll be getting quite a few in the next couple of days.
I sent him an email - I suspect he'll be getting quite a few in the next couple of days.
Here is his response to our e-mails : (he sent it to all of us)
The important thing about Bin Laden, or whoever did this, is that he is
warped but brilliant. We need to know this to outsmart him. He is not some
ignorant cleric (my pardon to all members of the cloth). Here's my response
I am sending to everyone who wrote me.
As the brother of a chemical engineer, I surely meant no offense to
engineers, but I have received several e-mails protesting my reference to
the mastermind of destruction of the World Trade Center twin towers as ``The
Engineer.'' I apologize to members of this noble profession who took
offense and make the following explanation. The dictionary definition of
engineer is ``a person who carries through an enterprise by skillful or
artful contrivance,'' and this is the generic sense in which I used this
term. I never said the perpetrator was educated as an engineer. Metaphors
are important tools for writers. To say that this thug had the technical
skills of an engineer is not to elevate him or disparage engineers, but to
try and understand our enemy, which we must do before we can find him and
put him out of business.
CVA1993
The important thing about Bin Laden, or whoever did this, is that he is
warped but brilliant. We need to know this to outsmart him. He is not some
ignorant cleric (my pardon to all members of the cloth). Here's my response
I am sending to everyone who wrote me.
As the brother of a chemical engineer, I surely meant no offense to
engineers, but I have received several e-mails protesting my reference to
the mastermind of destruction of the World Trade Center twin towers as ``The
Engineer.'' I apologize to members of this noble profession who took
offense and make the following explanation. The dictionary definition of
engineer is ``a person who carries through an enterprise by skillful or
artful contrivance,'' and this is the generic sense in which I used this
term. I never said the perpetrator was educated as an engineer. Metaphors
are important tools for writers. To say that this thug had the technical
skills of an engineer is not to elevate him or disparage engineers, but to
try and understand our enemy, which we must do before we can find him and
put him out of business.
CVA1993
Well, you must know that distaste for engineers (and in general of men of knowledge) is quite prevalent in those not enthralled by these things. Today even Socrates and Shakespeare are derided by the idiots in the media.
The thing is old, when they structured the roman legions, engineers fell in the unclasssifiable residuum of one last corps having a bit of everything.
And of course, engineers and architects are actively opposed by people that don't want do nor difficult things, nor the correct ones. You will find at councils lots and lots of lobbyists for remaking again pavements, but far less to build a new facility...that is because such people does not know very well how to lift their face of the ground level, it is simply difficult for them to build what designed and far cozier earn the bucks by laying layers of stuff. As well they avoid meeting them, that give them shrills.
Then they can show how smart they are with the bucks they have such way earned. And this included Julius Caesar.
The thing is old, when they structured the roman legions, engineers fell in the unclasssifiable residuum of one last corps having a bit of everything.
And of course, engineers and architects are actively opposed by people that don't want do nor difficult things, nor the correct ones. You will find at councils lots and lots of lobbyists for remaking again pavements, but far less to build a new facility...that is because such people does not know very well how to lift their face of the ground level, it is simply difficult for them to build what designed and far cozier earn the bucks by laying layers of stuff. As well they avoid meeting them, that give them shrills.
Then they can show how smart they are with the bucks they have such way earned. And this included Julius Caesar.
-
1
- #13
Just as CVA1993 did, I sent my own email to John Hall and got the same response from him.
I looked up the definition of "engineer" in my dictionary, and it did indeed include his above definition. I do not believe that he meant harm in his statements, but I do believe that he caused such. We can hope that he replies in print to his statements.
Here was my email to him:
While I understand the point which Mr. Hall is making, I take strong
exception to the use of "Engineer" to describe this madman.
Just as the term "doctor" should not be applied to the Nazi medical
experimenters in the holocaust camps, neither should the engineering
profession be smeared by calling such monsters as those involved in
theseattacks "engineers".
I quote from the National Society of Professional Engineers Code of
Ethicsfor Engineers:
"Engineers, in the fulfillment of their professional duties,shall:
1. Hold paramount the safety, health, and welfare of the public."
That is merely the first canon; there are many others which were
similarly violated by these terrorists.
This person was most definitely smart, and very well may have been
trained as an engineer. He is not, however, an engineer.
Here was his response to me (the same as above, with a personal addition):
" The horror of it was that they were doctors.
As the brother of a chemical engineer, I surely meant no offense to
engineers, but I have received several e-mails protesting my reference to . . ."
I wouldn't view him as an enemy of our profession; rather as somebody who possibly did not consider the effect of his words on us (but apparently now is very aware of that effect).
Brad
I looked up the definition of "engineer" in my dictionary, and it did indeed include his above definition. I do not believe that he meant harm in his statements, but I do believe that he caused such. We can hope that he replies in print to his statements.
Here was my email to him:
While I understand the point which Mr. Hall is making, I take strong
exception to the use of "Engineer" to describe this madman.
Just as the term "doctor" should not be applied to the Nazi medical
experimenters in the holocaust camps, neither should the engineering
profession be smeared by calling such monsters as those involved in
theseattacks "engineers".
I quote from the National Society of Professional Engineers Code of
Ethicsfor Engineers:
"Engineers, in the fulfillment of their professional duties,shall:
1. Hold paramount the safety, health, and welfare of the public."
That is merely the first canon; there are many others which were
similarly violated by these terrorists.
This person was most definitely smart, and very well may have been
trained as an engineer. He is not, however, an engineer.
Here was his response to me (the same as above, with a personal addition):
" The horror of it was that they were doctors.
As the brother of a chemical engineer, I surely meant no offense to
engineers, but I have received several e-mails protesting my reference to . . ."
I wouldn't view him as an enemy of our profession; rather as somebody who possibly did not consider the effect of his words on us (but apparently now is very aware of that effect).
Brad
I also sent him an email, but did not receive any response. His response is fair so far as it goes, BUT, why did he use Engineer instead of engineer?
A use of a capitalized word does not refer to the generic definition, but to a given title. Thus, technically speaking, he WAS referring to an Engineer (one of us) and not the generic definition. As a journalist, he should know that....but......is he a journalist or the Journalist?
Sorry...this is Eng-Tips (as in engineer) and not Eng-Tips (as in English).
A use of a capitalized word does not refer to the generic definition, but to a given title. Thus, technically speaking, he WAS referring to an Engineer (one of us) and not the generic definition. As a journalist, he should know that....but......is he a journalist or the Journalist?
Sorry...this is Eng-Tips (as in engineer) and not Eng-Tips (as in English).
I also wrote to the SOB. However, since Ron raised the bar - I applied a bit of diplomacy (what little I have left - I'm too old to have much left)which I am certain went over his head. I ask Mr. Hall to put his apology in print. I wonder if that will happen.
JAE...I agree..you'd think a writer would be almost as good at "wordsmithing" as a lawyer!
Qshake...I hope you gave him hell. In retrospect, I was a bit soft on him.
I didn't receive a response from him, either. Should we take it personally, JAE??!!
Qshake...I hope you gave him hell. In retrospect, I was a bit soft on him.
I didn't receive a response from him, either. Should we take it personally, JAE??!!
Well, I know this hurts, but Osama Bin Laden _is_ a civil engineer. That he uses his knowledge to hurt and kill, while we are duty-bound to protect does not alter this. We must all realize that there will always be some black sheep who bring all professional families shame, like the doctor who steals kidneys to sell on the black market for transplantation.
JAE,
I think this is the first time on this board I haven't totally agreed with you!
When he capitalized the word "engineer", he was intending it to be a proper name. For instance, we capitalize "Air Jordan" (referring to Michael Jordan) and "The Wizard" (referring to Ichiro Suzuki, the baseball sensation). I'm not condoning his usage of the word at all, just trying to see into what he was intending. But while technically correct, it still defames our profession.
Anyway, this is a small thing in the grand scheme of things. Let's all keep supporting our fight against terrorism.
I think this is the first time on this board I haven't totally agreed with you!
When he capitalized the word "engineer", he was intending it to be a proper name. For instance, we capitalize "Air Jordan" (referring to Michael Jordan) and "The Wizard" (referring to Ichiro Suzuki, the baseball sensation). I'm not condoning his usage of the word at all, just trying to see into what he was intending. But while technically correct, it still defames our profession.
Anyway, this is a small thing in the grand scheme of things. Let's all keep supporting our fight against terrorism.
breaks....agreed...
I did finally receive his reply (same as indicated above). Ron, did you finally receive it or was yours too nice for him to feel obligated?
He referred to it as a metaphor and how important a metaphor is to a writer. Well, from now on, in the morning, I'm going to be sure to flush my journalist.
abhio: I disagree. Does bin Laden have a license? I doubt it. Just because he took some classes doesn't make him an engineer. Not that all licensed engineers are saints. We're just trying to protect our profession.
I did finally receive his reply (same as indicated above). Ron, did you finally receive it or was yours too nice for him to feel obligated?
He referred to it as a metaphor and how important a metaphor is to a writer. Well, from now on, in the morning, I'm going to be sure to flush my journalist.
abhio: I disagree. Does bin Laden have a license? I doubt it. Just because he took some classes doesn't make him an engineer. Not that all licensed engineers are saints. We're just trying to protect our profession.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Question
- Locked
- Question
- Locked
- Question