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Residential wiring considerations

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GS3

Electrical
Feb 3, 2007
16
Local (not really important where) electric code has introduced some changes for residential installations for which I would like to hear your opinions. We're talking 220V supplied between neutral and live (one phase of 3 phase system). We are talking about general residential low power circuits equivalent to AWG 12~14.

(1) Code used to allow circuit breakers only breaking the live wire, now double breakers which will break both live an neutral are required in every circuit.

I suppose breaking the neutral as well as the live may add a marginal amount of safety but is it really worth it? I suppose one could think of a situation where not breaking the neutral could present some danger but it seems very, very, remote. The breaker panel now holds fewer circuits or becomes twice as large.

What do you think?

(2) Code now requires a general GFIC protecting the entire installation be installed immediately after the general shutoff circuit interrupter. This causes untold grief with nuisance tripping. I suppose there is plenty of "pre-charge" from stray capacitances to earth from wiring and loads so the least ground fault trips the 30 mA GFCI. GFCI trips and everything goes. No light to see your way to the panel, computer loses your work. If you are away for a few days you will come back to find the food in the freezer is lost. I really do not like this system.

Of course, in other people's homes this is their problem. In my home I have certain circuits not GFCI protected.

IMHO the American system of having GFCIs for each circuit at the delivery point greatly diminishes this problem. I suppose instead of having just one GFCI for the whole installation the problem could be alleviated by dividing the load between two or more GFCIs at the panel. Apart from the cost, this compounds the space problem because space-wise you end up with the equivalent of four breakers per circuit (neutral and live, breaker and GFCI).

What say you?


(3) All wiring has to be in conduit, this has not changed. Up until now only solid wire was allowed but now stranded cable is allowed. I suppose this is to make insertion & pulling easier.
While it definitely makes insertion easier, I am not sure I quite like it and this for two reasons. One is that I have seen very old copper solid wire slightly corroded on the surface but still good inside. With stranded cable I am afraid the effect of any surface corrosion can be much more serious as the individual treads can be much more seriously affected by any corrosion and also in my experience, stranded cable tends to corrode faster because capilarity tends to pull in any corrosives. While this is a serious concern in boats and installations in corrosive atmospheres, it should not be a serious concern in residential installations but, still, it just seems to me solid wire is much preferable.

Another, more immediate concern is that solid wire stands up better to screw connections, etc. I find stranded cable needs to be worked much more carefully and there is much room for damage and bad connections if the operator is not careful.

What is your opinion in this matter of solid vs. stranded conductors?
 
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I'm certainly glad I don't have to worry about (1) and (2); written by some over zealous committee. Not sure what purpose a 30mA GFCI performs as 5mA is necessary for personnel protection. (And breakers are a really bad way of accomplishing it anyway, point of use GFCI is much more practical.)

No problem with (3), but you do need to use devices intended for stranded wire not those intended for solid wire.
 
"We're talking 220V supplied between neutral and live (one phase of 3 phase system). We are talking about general residential low power circuits equivalent to AWG 12~14."

110/220 volt systems are not 2 phase of a three phase system.
The center wire is the neutral and is never broken by any type of circuit breaker that I aware of.
What code are you covered by? Doesn't sound like the NEC.
 
BJC, he is obviously in Europe or elsewhere that uses the same type of system. They get 220 L-N off a 380V L-L system and have no 110-120V option.
 
I have to bring my camp up to code to get back on the grid. Currently it runs on 12V. I'm just getting over the need for arc detectors and GFI. I better get it done before they think of something else!
 
Not sure what purpose a 30mA GFCI performs as 5mA is necessary for personnel protection.

30mA is the standard for personnel protection over here, with 10mA used in higher risk (e.g. damp) areas.

A 300mA / 300ms delayed RCD is used at the incomer in certain installations with low earth fault levels where breaker clearance times can't otherwise be met. The time delay allows it to coordinate with downstream instantaneous RCDs - it is pretty much impossible to coordinate RCDs on current alone. It is fairly common for a 30mA RCBO - an integrated RCD and circuit breaker - to be used on final distribution circuits.

I'm curious where this code implementation is. Sounds like Europe somewhere, or somewhere which has had European influence.


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Actually I should have said "230 V" since it was standardised at that some time ago but it used to be 220 and that's what you still hear even when we all know it's 230. Just the force of habit.

The more I think about the requirement for the breaker to break the neutral too the less reason I see for it. I thought I could imagine some situation where not breaking the neutral could present danger but it would have to be a very unlikely situation.

I have not seen breakers which combine magneto-thermal-ground fault protection all in one. I suppose they will become more available if there is demand. For now I see the standard magneto-thermal breaker (now with 2 poles) and immediately following a ground fault breaker.

I have seen much nuisance tripping of GFCIs. One installation of a bank of PCs was SO bad that I recommended installing a 1:1 isolation transformer. If it were mine I would have just cancelled the GFCI but it was a school and I did not want any responsibility even if I was just giving informal advice.

I have thought that the parasitic low current to ground is probably always capacitive and maybe it could be compensated with an inductive current in parallel. I recently measured roughly a current of about 12 mA to ground which I assume to be capacitive. In this case the real current needed to trip the GFCI is only 18 mA and it seems that a spike coming down the line can do it. If i could connect a 12 mA inductive load between line and ground it would offset the initial parasitic fault.

When people complain about the GFCI tripping while they are away and coming back to a freezer full of spoiled food they are advised to install a self-resetting GFCI but these are much more expensive.

I do like the American system of point of use GFCIs much. much better. Part of the parasitic load (like capacitance of wires) does not go through the GFCI and does not pre-load it. Also each GFCI has fewer devices connected to it which divides the parasitic leaks to ground.

You really want to find a balance between safety and nuisance tripping. Time will probably show all this nuisance tripping of GFCIs is causing more accidents than it is preventing because little old ladies are having to climb on a chair, in the dark, to reset the GFCI (if they even know how to get that far).
 
The UK uses fused polarised plugs with a leading earth pin. Last time I checked we were in the European Union, to our eternal damnation.


Point-of-use socket faceplates incorporating RCD protection are freely available over here in the UK, but our wiring installations tend to use a ring main where one RCBO serves a number of sockets in an area so they are not seen that often. If we go to a radial distribution system once again then the RCD sockets will probably become common. I agree that they avoid some of the negative aspects of installing an RCD or RCBO at the distribution board, particularly on long circuits.


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Hmmm... I'm a little confused here. You said "not really important where", but I beg to differ. You are making references to things that are somewhat incongruous. You mention "We're talking 220V supplied between neutral and live (one phase of 3 phase system). We are talking about general residential low power circuits equivalent to AWG 12~14."

"AWG" = American Wire Gauge, so that implies US (or Canada), or at least you are familiar with that system of wire sizing, so YOU are in / from N.A. somewhere.

"220V supplied between neutral and live (one phase of 3 phase system)" - there is no 3 phase system in N.A. that I am aware of that will have 220V from phase to neutral. A 380Y system will be 220V L-N, but that does not exist in N.A. as far as I know.

GFCI is another N.A. terminology. IEC people use Earth Leakage or RCD.

So either this is not residential, and/or not in North America and you are an American EE trying to do work in another country. If so, there are completely different sets of rules to go by than what you may be used to if you are an EE in North America. I'm not questioning your abilities as an EE, I understand that electrons have no political boundaries (except in Sweden). But it may be prudent for you not to try to second guess why things are required in different locales and either "go with the flow" or turn that part of the project over to someone who is more familiar with local rules and codes.

Just a suggestion...
 
The UK uses fused polarised plugs with a leading earth pin.
I ilike the polarised part. I also like the fact that those plugs can be used as a throwable weapon or even ship's anchor :)

Regarding the fuse, I have got more grief than safety. In the UK I bought an adapter for my laptop's power supply but the initial surge blew the fuse. I have since modified the PS to include an NTC which limits the initial surge.

Not many people know that you can fit a europlug into a UK socket. Just put something into the earth so the other holes will open and then you can insert the europlug. I have done this a number of times, most recently at Hong Kong airport.
 
But it may be prudent for you not to try to second guess why things are required in different locales and either "go with the flow" or turn that part of the project over to someone who is more familiar with local rules and codes.
I disagree. I think a good engineer should try to learn and understand as much as possible and not just blindly follow some local code. I believe the thoughts of other engineers here would be interesting. I believe that codes often have requirements that make no sense and it is healthy to question them and understand their implications. Codes are made by comitees of other engineers, not by God Almighty. They can and should be questioned and that is how they get changed. Someone who is just interested in blindly following a code is not IMHO a good engineer but a good bureaucrat.
 
GS3,

I was going to comment on the well known malpractice of jamming Shuko plugs into UK sockets, but it brought a memory of my school days into my mind.

You may notice that UK BS1363 plugs have little insulated sleeves around the live and neutral pins over about half their length. These were not always there - in bygone years the pins were all brass. By coincidence the UK's 1p coin is a perfect tight fit between the line, neutral and earth pins of the plug. Fit a coin to the plug, push it in a socket, turn it on - BANG - class disrupted when power to that floor of the building mysteriously went off! I forget how many times this gag was used in our school. We must have been a tough year to teach.

Don't worry, I have grown up a little since!


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I like how the UK sockets have an on/off switch on them too, which struck me as a good idea. However, I also recall staying in a hotel that was built during the reign of King George-I and seeing a light switch that resembed a door bell switch with a little toggle arm on it. I honestly looked at the rickety thing for about 5 minutes before I decided that I was brave enough to try and turn the lights on. I suspect that the wiring was almost as old as the hotel. Well, ok, not really, but it looked like it was certainly "pre war".



 
Sorry GS3, I misinterpreted your intentions.
I agree that everything should be on a table for discussion. I just worry about people spinning their wheels trying to change things that are relatively trivial when, as you say, many of those code issues are more bureaucratic than anything else. I guess I have no time for wasting on fighting bureaucrats and choose to focus my efforts on bigger issues.

But by all means, have at it if you are willing to take them on!

But remember the Serenity Prayer...

God,
Grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The Courage to change the things I can,
And the Wisdom to know the difference.

OK, I'm off my soapbox.
 
My only question is what does the local electrical inspector say about these regulations?

That really is all your worried about. If this person interprets it differently than what we think, then our opinions are meaningless.
 
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