Requirement of test coupon as per UCS 85 1

[sanshu1111]

Heads are cold formed using normalized plates (P No 1, Group 1. Heads are subsequently normalized after cold forming. Do we need test coupon to represent normalizing after forming as per the requirement of UCS 85 (f)?

Any idea if the below interpretation is still applicable as the vessel fabricator is refering to this interpretation and refused to consider normalizing test coupon.

Do we need test coupon for normalizing + PWHT if the vessel required PWHT also?

Interpretation: VIII-1-89-69
Subject: Section VIII, Division 1, UCS-85
Date Issued: February 15, 1989
File: BC88-193

Question (1): If plates that have been normalized, and qualified on the basis of test specimens taken from the plates after normalizing, are subsequently heated to equivalent temperatures above the lower transformation temperature during hot forming, are additional test specimens representative of the second thermal cycle required by UCS-85?

Reply (1): No, provided all other requirements of UCS-85 are met.

Question (2): If plates supplied in the as-rolled condition with qualification based upon simulated normalizing of test coupons are heated for forming to a temperature within a reasonable tolerance of that used to qualify the test coupons, are additional test coupons required?

Reply (2): No, provided all the other requirements of UCS-85 are met.

Regards
San

 

[sanshu1111]

Any advise on the above requirement/ interpretation?

Regards

Sanj

 

[EnergyMix]

This is from the forward of the latest version of the ASME Interpretations (Volume 61): "An interpretation applies either to the Edition and Addenda in effect on the date of issuance of the interpretation or the Edition and Addenda stated in the interpretation. Subsequent revisions to the Code may supersede the interpretation."

Since you're quoting an 1989 Interpretation, it's highly unlikely that it still applies. However, I'm not a Code expert. Hopefully one of the Code people who frequent the forums will speak up.

Want to know the do's and don'ts of Eng-Tips? Read FAQ731-376.
English not your native language? Looking for some help in getting your question across to others or understanding their answers? Go to forum1529.

 

[weldtek]

Suggest you review UCS 85.
Par f) details an exemption not a requirement. Typically additional testing isn't required assuming of course, that the subsequent normalizing treatment on the production part has been represented in the heat treatment of the original test coupons.
I can tell you that the practice described in the interpretations is, literally, done every day.

 

[bpv66]

Interpretation VIII-1-89-69 is still valid.

 

[sanshu1111]

Weldtek,
To my understanding interpretation VIII-1-89-69 talks about test coupon from the normalized plate and not representing normalizing cycle on formed head.

After going through some of the other interpretations and postings on the similar subject, making me even more confued about the exact requirements;

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=333004

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=182823

Another confusion is about the applicability of any particular interpretation. Understand that the interpretation is valid only if the relevant section is not revised post interpretation. Can we assume that all the interpretations listed in the index issued with latest code book are still valid? There are many interprations listed in the index for UCS 85 which are conflicting and leading to confusion.

 

[weldtek]

Keep in mind, the answers to questions issued as interpretations are, naturally, specific to the the question asked. The way a question is worded will most definitely affect the way it's answered.

There is in my mind, no contradiction. Consider UCS 85 c). If a material is heated to a temperature in excess of the lower transformation temperature, the material must be represented in this condition. Note, Par f) exempts P1 materials from additional testing when the heat treatment is below the LTT, such as is typical for stress relieving PWHT's in P1 materials.

If a manufacturer purchases plate in the 'green' condition, or 'as rolled', and in processing, subjects the material to a heat treatment above the LTT, such as normalizing, the manufacturer must test the material in the heat treated condition, UNLESS, the mill supplied documentation for that plate that included test data from a similarly heat treated test coupon.
If a head manufacturer purchases a plate either normalized, or green with test data in the normalized condition, and subsequently hot forms the plate at normalizing temperature, typically, no further testing is required.

As to your last question, I don't believe one can assume all interpretations are valid just because they appear in the index. If in doubt, ask your AI agency to confirm current status of an interpretation.

 

[jamesl]

I don't know why you did normalizing after cold forming. I typically see normalizing during hot forming or after hot forming. Either way, weldtek's interpretation is clear and correct. If you already have the MTR for normalized plates from the mill, you don't need to run test coupons again.