P-4X WPS's 2

[tab1999]

I'm new to the site and have read a tremendous amount of information so far (although I'm still learning to navigate the site)It is obvious that there are a lot of folks here with a lot of History and experience.
My question is as follows:
1.
Can you write a WPS for Carpenter 20 or Inconel from a PQR that was tested on Monel with-out further testing? "Just write it using the original variables with new base metal and filler wire"
This is without impact testing etc., ASME (no specialties in the PQR) OR can you just follow the Procedure Specification I already have for P-4X Monel,AL6XN etc.

I believe that the fillers have equivalent F-#'s and that the base metals are P-4X

Thanks
Tom

p.s. aside from studying AWS B2.1:2000, Is there any available sites etc. that are geared around this Topic?

 

[gtaw]

AWS B2.1 is a good standard, but it isn't applicable if you are working to ASME or a military standard.

You have to consider all the essential variables defined in the applicable welding standard. Typically, that would include the P number, A number, F number, etc. P4X is a family of nickel alloys, so you have to make sure your PQR was qualified for the P number you are using in production. A PQR for a P41 isn't going to cover a WPS for P44.

Since you mentioned P number rather than M number, I have to assume your construction code is an ASME code. You would need to check ASME Section IX and the ASME construction code to make sure all your bases are covered.

Good luck - Al

 

[tab1999]

Thanks gtaw,
I know on a WPQ 1 4X material qualifies for the others as long as there isn't anything special or different among the variables.
I just wasn't sure about the WPS.

Basically, I will need a new PQR and WPS with different base metals? and Filler metals?

I was thinking that these were grouped to minimize the excessive number or Procedures.

Thanks

 

[weldtek]

TAB1999,
In Sec IX base metals are grouped to minimize the no. of qualifications necessary. QW-424 outlines the rules for selection of base material. QW-422 lists the base metals by P number providing a means for quick reference.QW-25x provides the variables; essential, supplementary essential and non-essential.

 

[gtaw]

Hello tab999;

You are correct that there are groupings of base metals, filler metals, etc. to reduce the number of procedures that have to be qualified.

However, the qualification of any P2X does not qualify the WPS for all P2X base metals. If P21 is used as the base metal to qualify the procedure, you can not weld P22 and P23 based on the PQR that was qualified using P21. You can only include P21 aluminum alloys in the WPS.

Likewise, the F numbers for the filler metals are grouped to reduce the number of PQRs required. There are little "hooks" there as well. For example, F6 includes a number of filler metals used to join steels. However, if you qualify a procedure using FCAW with an F6 filler metal, the same WPS and supporting PQR can not be used to weld using GTAW with an F6 filler metal. In this case the welding process is different and it too requires a separate PQR.

Welder qualification is a different animal. Welder performance qualification has different essential variables than does procedure qualification. Never mix procedure qualification requirements with performance qualification requirements.

Procedure Qualification: ASME Section IX Article II addresses the (essential, nonessential and supplemental) variables for procedure qualification. Paragraphs in Article II will refer you to paragraphs that are applicable from Article I and Article IV (never any paragraphs from Article III).

Performance Qualification: ASME Section IX Article III addresses the essential variables for welder performance qualification. Article III will refer you to paragraphs from Article I and Article IV (never Article II).

Another "hook" to watch for when working with ASME is the construction code you are using. The construction codes, such as B31.3, can modify the requirements of ASME Section IX for both procedure and performance qualification. For example; welders can usually be qualified by either radiographic examination of the test coupon or by bending samples removed from the test coupon. B31.1 states that welders have to be qualified by bend tests if they are welding a piping system that is "high pressure".

Best regards - Al

 

[tab1999]

Based on all your info and my interpretation of Sect IX, If I have a PQR and a WPS already Qualified for (P-45)materials, I can use other P-45's, as long as the essential variables are the same. e.g. No pre or post weld heat-treat, impact testing is the same or don't exist etc.?

p.s. I appreciate all your help. There aren't many forums of places to get "understandable" replies.

 

[gtaw]

We're glad to help.

We all look for help at sometime or another. I know I have. No one can know everything.

Best regards - Al