Modification to Existing Drawings

[AlexSTR89]

Hello,

I am curious on what the usual procedure is to making minor modifications to existing buildings. For example making a new wall opening - the city usually requests that complete floor plans be submitted for permitting. Is it permissible to draw on top of the existing building drawings? If no CAD files are available, can the old drawings (PDFs) be put inside a new title block and be used to draw on top of? What is the usual procedure for this?

 

[Rabbit12]

In the oil and gas industry it's common to edit existing PDF drawings. We bubble and cloud the changes and rev the drawings. When it came time to stamp we'd put a note that the stamp applies to only the revision number that the corresponding changes are attributed to.

 

[AlexSTR89]

Thanks for the reply Rabbit12. If you don't mind me asking, how would you handle the drawing revision - would you insert a new title block for your company around the existing drawing, would you clip out the old title block, or would you just update the original title block with latest revision information and company info?

 

[Ron247]

Industrial clients may allow a lot of leeway compared to a city inspector. They may also have the rights to use the drawings again. You may have copyright issues if you use someone else's drawing unless your client has the rights. I would not want someone to use my drawings for their project even though I was paid for what I did. If someone did use my drawings, I would be mad if they left my titleblock and stamp on them. I do not need the extra liability should something go wrong.

The method Rabbit described makes sense other than any copyright issues. Copy the drawings, note your new revision and clearly mark those revisions. In the end, it is the City that must say OK. Where I am, we get different requirements from different city officials. One will accept a stamped letter of something when another wants a stamped drawing for the same thing.

 

[Rabbit12]

Ron you may be right about copyright issues, but with the clients I have experience with we just left the existing block in place and added revision notes in the title block. Keep in mind though that these are drawings that are likely changed multiple times over the life of the structures.

The copyright issue would probably be dependent on the contract between the original engineer and the owner and what those drawings can be used for.

 

[Ron247]

The reason I rarely worry about industrial clients and copyrights is that their pockets are much deeper than mine. Commercial, that is different. Also, in my area, industrial plants rarely get building permits for most work on their site. The City does not tend to hassle them. Industrial does not change hands like residential and commercial.

 

[AskTooMuch]

O&G or Industrial is different. Most of the time you don't need to submit structural drawings for permit.

 

[dhengr]

AlexSTR89:
You are not trying to usurp anyone else’s responsibilities or authority, vis-a-vi, the original EOR or person who stamped the original plans. You are trying to show the AHJ the original conditions and what you intend to do, and the new work on which you are wanting the new permit. And, you are wanting to transmit the max. amount of info. needed for the AHJ to make a determination, with a min. of effort on their part about everything pertaining to the existing bldg. and its history and conditions, except for the new work, which they must review. With that in mind, and in my old fashioned thinking and methods (undoubtedly, this can all be done digitally today), I would make two copies of the pertinent original plan sheets. The first copy would be unchanged from the original, with the exception that, far removed from the new work area or title block and stamp, I would paste an 8.5”x11” sheet with a few notes, such as, original permitted date, by such-n-such city; approx. construction dates, etc.; info. which allows the AHJ to look back if they wish. The easier you make these things for the AHJ, the more favorably they look upon you and your needs. One the second copy, in the same general location another 8.5x11 sheet with your stamp, your title block, pertinent current project info. which you are responsible for, bldg. owner, etc. Then do your work and drawing, in red, within a cloud, etc., and print it in color too. You are wanting to show what work you are responsible for, how it ties in with existing conditions, and that you are not altering other things. I wouldn’t call it a drawing revision, it is a bldg. change and you are wanting to show how it fits with what was originally approved and built.

 

[GeoEnvGuy]

I commonly see the red bubble changes to drawings with a new rev number and stamp with comments its only for the bubble changes. Just know that if you are changing (removing, adding, replacing) structural aspects with a new wall opening you are now possibly owning the structural design if something goes wrong.

 

[wannabeSE]

For the example of adding a new opening, The new construction documents would include a plan with enough information to locate the new opening and all details needed for the new opening. I would include a set of record drawings marked “record drawings for plan check reference only” with the permit submital. If it is OK with plan check, I’ll give them a pdf of the record drawings rather than plotting the entire set. Sometimes, I plot the pertinent sheets and and give them a pdf of the entire record set