Yes, I am well aware of the effect of hot working and rolling on grain structure. It was suggested in a meeting to try a chem lolly pop as an alternative to a product sample to run the austenitic grain size test. On occasion the GS tests were not available and the only recourse was to notch the product to obtain a sample. I had never heard of any one ever using the chem sample for this purpose -- but you never know. We have carburized several tests, but are getting mixed results.