Letter for County Inspector 3

[tEng1554]

I have a need to draft a letter to a county building inspector concerning lowering some window wells in a basement remodel. The letter is for the owner so that he can secure a permit to do the work. The letter will have to be signed and sealed.

Any specifics to put in (or keep out of) the letter, etc...?

Any help/suggestions are appreciated.

Tony Crawfurd
Crawfurd Engineering

 

[diarmud]

If the window wells are lowered and water floods the basement or there are other problems, will the owner expect you to pay? There is a reason the county building inpsector wants a PE seal.

Window wells have to drain somewhere . . . is there drainage now and can drainage be provided when they are lowered? What's the drainage in the area?

I never provide anything with my seal on it unless I have personally looked at it and thought about it.

Site visit (what does a plumber charge just to show up?), followed by some serious thought and reflection.

Good luck.

 

[MiketheEngineer]

If you hae never done this before - I suggest you find a mentor or other engineer that can help you. You are buying into a lot of resposibilty - not that that is wrong - just want you to be careful of what you accepting.

 

[civilperson]

Plastic covers for the wells will keep them from flooding. A gravel pit at the bottom will soak away any drips. Make sure there is 30" minimum horizontal dimension in well for fire egress purposes.

 

[JAE]

Plastic covers for the wells will keep them from flooding.

I guess I've never seen a plastic cover that is waterproof.

 

[RareBugTX]

Sounds like a lot of liability for...what, $300, $400....$1000.00????.......Not worth it, think about what can go wrong about the problem, and who you think the owner will hold responsible and right there you get your answer.

That's just my way of seeing it.

 

[tEng1554]

Wow, this thread went in a direction I simply was not anticipating. Perhaps I should clarify or even revise my original question.

To clarify, I am not the contractor nor will I be performing any work. The modifications are to existing windows that the owner wants to make deeper. Other than some localized cracking of the foundation, I cannot come up with other defined failures (no, the house will not fall down). Also, since I am not performing the work, I am looking for good language to state that I cannot be blamed for poor workmanship.

By my experience, if you put a hole in the ground it doesn't matter what you cover it with (plastic, concrete, a house...) it will have the potential of flooding no matter what you do. I don't see how flooding is a structural issue, per se. Don't get me wrong, flooding is an important thing, I just see this as a structural issue only; unless the inspector is looking at this from more angles than I (perhaps a call to the inspector will clear this issue up).

I do understand the liability of putting my signature on something and that is why I am asking the question here and not asking any of you fine engineers to do so for me. I have put a lot of thought into it and just wanted to have some other input (thank you MikeTheEngineer and RareBug). This type of work must happen fairly frequently, have any of you provided a letter or a set of plans? Some of us have surely done this type of work, will someone speak up? Mike, can you qualify to be the mentor, any suggestions?

Tony Crawfurd
Crawfurd Engineering

 

[hokie66]

Tony,

The cautious advice you have been given is well founded. The inspector wants the letter to shift responsibility from him/her to you. If something bad happens, whether flooding or whatever, then you have a problem. You cannot depend on being held liable only for structural issues only, no matter how carefully you word your disclaimer.

 

[diarmud]

Okay, here goes.
You are now talking the residential building code in your state. You need to check it (most likely the fire code). You also need to check if the "code enforcement official -CEO" - the building official, is aware of any local more stringent requirements. I certainly would talk to him before conducting a site visit.

As an example, there may be a requirement for an egress from the basement through one of the window wells. Even if it was designed wrong at its current depth (perhaps the width is not enough), if you sign off on making it deeper, you probably have some liability.

Drainage? Where is the water table?

I'm not saying don't get involved, I'm just saying be careful and understand there may be a building code issue. You really need to conduct a site visit, take plenty of pictures and be specific in your design. Don't visit the site after construction is finished unless you also want responsibility for what the construction contractor ultimately builds. Also, from experience, everyone is real friendly and nice, until something goes wrong.

Some towns in this area require rebar "around" window wells and/or basement windows, even though an actual design does not call for it. Is there rebar around the existing window well? Where does the drainage go now? Are there obstructions (pipes along the basement wall) now? Is the wall furred out on the inside? If so what's there (thus the photos)?

If the owner hires a poor contractor who removes the lintel or 2x's over the existing window and does not replace them and you don't provide specifics and it's done improperly, the owner or CEO may not be happy with you. Of course, don't assume the contractor knows what is expected of him.

I've done similar, provided a drawing with very specific details. I assured myself that drainage was excellent, a letter is not enough. Included a site visit, many photos and it's all in the file (my state requires us to keep the file for 6 years).

Go ahead and do it but be prudent. I do small work and just turned down a foundation rework because the CEO wanted a stamped set of drawings. After talking with the CEO, I decided it just didn't seem right, something was wrong.

Good luck.

 

[darthsoilsguy2]

another item about window wells is whether frost depth needs to be considered when designing the footing in cold climates. if the window well was not in the original design, frost cover may have been assumed to be greater.

window wells need to have good drainage by prevention and control

prevention - grading directs water away from well. roofs do not attack the well

control - good drainage design within the well and discharge of the pipe away from the house

 

[bigmig]

I don't know how it is where you guys are from, but where I'm from the building department, city or county, IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANYTHING. There is no "shifting" of responsibility from them to you. There is only you. They review hundreds of plans, sites etc. If they were responsible, they would be sued every day for missing 1 thing on any number of items (including non structural).

 

[diarmud]

How true!

Some drawings actually have two or more "stamps", in this state you can define and split responsibilities BUT, the building department is responsible for nothing other than making sure the drawings are stamped. Here, they will mark on them things they want and yes, I've had them returned, not much in writing but long phone calls or meetings with the COE. They usually know more about the applicable codes than me.

What you should find is the COE being helpful and they will suggest where you may have a problem but it's you in terms of liability.

 

[sundale]

I have done alot of these without any problem. Usually the owner wants an occupied basement bedroom and that requires an egress window. A few things to consider:

- Have some "anus protectus" wording in place with the owner that clearly states that cracks may perhaps develop as existing loads are redistributed.

- Make the contractor core drill the new re-entrant corners in lieu of sawcutting a blade diameter beyond the corner.

- Draw a picture and stamp that in lieu of a letter...

 

[DonPhillips]

Bigmig is right on. The local jurisdiction is not responsible for design, only enforcing the minimum requirements of the code. The residential codes are mostly prescriptive, and the IRC's typically reference the IBC when leaving these prescriptives. My guess is the homeowner has no clue how to design anything, except to repeat what others have done or has been told "will work". The jurisdiction is looking for someone to show it will work, which can be done with calculation or with a sealed design (in this case a letter).


Don Phillips

http://worthingtonengineering.com

 

[rday]

mBean,

The advice to be cautious is well intentioned. We do remodels that adjust basement windows all the time. We are called to address the structural items for the change, nothing more.

Your contract will limit your exposure regarding scope of work, workmanship by others et al. DO NOT proceed without one. You are providing structural services for a building, not site services for drainage nor architectural services regarding use/occupancy/egress.

Provide a letter describing existing conditions, proposed conditions, any assumptions you make and a summary of recommendations. Include and reference detail drawings of the design.