Large Assembly Structure

[MFDO]

I was told that for better performance, the main assembly and its main sub-assemblies should only contain datums and reference geometry (=considered as initiated by Assembly Template) and under those sub-assemblies, parts and components (=considered as initiated by Part Template). Like in other CAD, NX doesn’t have two type of designated Assy/Part templates structure, should it be considered such a method when building a large assembly in NX? Is this true?

Michael Fernando (CSWE)

http://www.solidCADworks.com

Tool and Die Designer
Siemens NX V8.5 + PDW
SWX 2013 SP3.0 X64
PDMWorks 2013
Logopress3
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[JohnRBaker]

Assemblies and Sub-Assemblies, by definition, generally contains only Components, which could be Assemblies (ie. Sub-Assemblies) themselves. Granted, some people include at least a single Datum CSYS to define the absolute origin, although that's not really needed since the usual workflow is to place first one of the more significant Components and apply a 'Fixed' constraint to it. Then constrain any additional Component relative to this first Component understanding that later you can delete the 'Fixed' constraint and assign it one or more of the other Components as you feel is needed to give you the 'performance' and relationships that you think best represents the relationships of the final physical model.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[MFDO]

Currently I’m designing a Die in NX assembly by referring previous designs given to me.

In NX, since there’re is no difference in Assembly template and part template; it’s chaotic and no followed structure or hierarchy that I could follow to see how the subcomponents are being inserted in the design tree. E.g.: Screws are inserted under one part and again inserted as a main component (parallel to the first part level or above) and wave linked from all-over and then subtracted. What a confusion!


Michael Fernando (CSWE)

http://www.solidCADworks.com

Tool and Die Designer
Siemens NX V8.5 + PDW
SWX 2013 SP3.0 X64
PDMWorks 2013
Logopress3
FastForm Advance
FormatWorks

 

[JohnRBaker]

Yes, you're correct, NX has only one file format for all parts, irrespective of what or how that part file is being used. NX has alwasy worked this way.

Perhaps you should consider finding an NX mentor and/or getting some formal training.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[MFDO]

John,
I’ve undergone formal NX training and quite well understand the process. What worries me is that I’m unable to establish proper best field practices with NX as there is no such documentation to be found. Everybody including every individual designer in the same design teams are following different design methodology, kind of cut and paste approach to patch up the mess on top of the mess. It’s hard to see anyone bothers to go back to clean up the design tree. Cloned deigns becomes horrible as the tree grows longer and longer with features, and then there is Parameters removed Body and then again continuation. I have seen the same body being linked and deleted 4 times repeatedly inside the same part. (BTW these are external designs, not our internal designs) I unable to decide if this is the flexibility that NX offer or the personal misconduct and bad habit.

Michael Fernando (CSWE)

http://www.solidCADworks.com

Tool and Die Designer
Siemens NX V8.5 + PDW
SWX 2013 SP3.0 X64
PDMWorks 2013
Logopress3
FastForm Advance
FormatWorks

 

[cowski]

I unable to decide if this is the flexibility that NX offer or the personal misconduct and bad habit.

Sounds like some of both.

NX is a powerful design tool; like other powerful tools it can be used to great or disastrous effect. I highly doubt that having specific file types would solve the problem, you'd just end up with different problems.

www.nxjournaling.com

 

[JohnRBaker]

Training is one thing, implementation is another. Perhaps you would be better served if you were using Teamcenter to manage your Assemblies and their structure. But as for there being no "best field practices", NX is like buying a tool box full of different tools each designed to do a particular task. Different people will choose to use a different subset of these tools and they will utilize them in a different order. It does not mean that one person is wrong and another is right, just that they are looking at the problem in perhaps a different light or from a different point of view. Granted, it might be easier for some people if NX only did things ONE WAY, but I suspect that if it did, you would soon discover that it was NOT even close to being ideal for YOUR particular situation. You need to decide what works best for YOU and YOUR organization and then enforce that 'standard' vigorously. If you're not using Teamcenter, that will require more discipline by each individual and more back-checking to make sure that people are following the 'plan'. With Teamcenter, this can be made somewhat easier to accomplish since you can better control roles and responsibilities of your users as well as providing a better framework to enforce your 'way of work'. Whatever you do, pick something the works for you and do it.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[MFDO]

We’ll forget about other designers and beating around the bush.

We'll consider a very basic situation! "A mother block and an insert".

So there is a main assembly part with no features but datums. Then under that main assembly, insert the mother block part. Now the insert; I assume it should go one level under the mother block or it should reside at a parallel level with the mother block; directly under the main assembly? I see both ways and would like to know the best practice.


Michael Fernando (CSWE)

http://www.solidCADworks.com

Tool and Die Designer
Siemens NX V8.5 + PDW
SWX 2013 SP3.0 X64
PDMWorks 2013
Logopress3
FastForm Advance
FormatWorks

 

[JohnRBaker]

You say that you're designing a 'die'. Is this a stamping die for a sheet metal part, like an automotive body panel, or a progressive die for an electrical contact or small mechanical part, or is a forging die or perhaps tooling to cast or mold some part? If so, Siemens PLM offers several specialized packages which do indeed enforce certain industry best practices. Perhaps this would be a better place to look for answers to your questions.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[MFDO]

John,
Yes I’m doing a large Automotive body panel Transfer die. (Please don’t think I’m writing without doing my homework.)

We have taken 5days long NX formal training in PDW and have unutilised 3 PDW licences with active subscription. {Please check my signature again. } I'm gradually starting to implement it but there is a long way to go. According to my previous employer, who is a major stakeholder of developing PDW in Germany, they've hired fulltime programmer for implementation and to run PDW. Please check the Link

Before PDW, I would like to build a solid foundation by ironing out the issues with NX's native work process and setting up best practices. As a start, basic things like above Mother block and insert question!

Michael Fernando (CSWE)

http://www.solidCADworks.com

Tool and Die Designer
Siemens NX V8.5 + PDW
SWX 2013 SP3.0 X64
PDMWorks 2013
Logopress3
FastForm Advance
FormatWorks

 

[JohnRBaker]

Well, I'm going to have to defer to someone with actual stamping die design experience (I'm an old machine designer) if you're looking for someone who can provide you with advice and direction at that level.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[MFDO]

John,
Please don't go away. (old is golden) I don't need PDW help right now.

I would appreciate if you could share your long experience from NX's basics to Large Assembly's best practices (The Topic). Answers to simple questions like block and insert.

Michael Fernando (CSWE)

http://www.solidCADworks.com

Tool and Die Designer
Siemens NX V8.5 + PDW
SWX 2013 SP3.0 X64
PDMWorks 2013
Logopress3
FastForm Advance
FormatWorks

 

[JohnRBaker]

I thought I covered the basics with my first response to you earlier this morning. There is nothing magical about creating large Assemblies, it just takes sticking to the basics and not making things more complicated than they are. Like I said, an Assembly is a collection of Components and/or other Assemblies (i.e. sub-assemblies). That's about it. Granted, there are things to learn about constraints and getting the maximum performance, but that's just fine tuning the basics.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[MFDO]

These days all the successful companies trying their best to adhere to 5s at their work places and enforce the employees for it. 5s=Sort, Stabilize, shine, standardise, Sustain. All it's for better productivity!

I wish NX had a better 5S file structure. Unfortunately it allows to use an untidy, unruly and a mess of a file structure. It’s very hard to keep up the integrity of the design throughout as it hands down or while passing through different hands.


Michael Fernando (CSWE)

http://www.solidCADworks.com

Tool and Die Designer
Siemens NX V8.5 + PDW
SWX 2013 SP3.0 X64
PDMWorks 2013
Logopress3
FastForm Advance
FormatWorks

 

[JohnRBaker]

Since we have customers who have been using our software for nearly 40 years in some cases (I first used it 37 years ago), we have to allow for continued access to their legacy data. Note that I have a large and complex part file, not an assembly but it does include both the model and the drawing, from one of our oldest customers, that was created and last saved 23 years ago. I can DIRECTLY open that file, with NO need to run it through any sort of conversion program first, with the latest version of NX and I'll have full access to all of the data exactly as it was 23 years ago. This is why it might appear to a new customer that NX uses "an untidy, unruly and a mess of a file structure". It's that way to protect the investment which our customers have made over the years and which will protect your investment as well into the future. Granted, it might feel 'untidy' but think about the alternative.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[MFDO]

John,
No matter what the legacy is, only efficiency & productivity will ensure our future and it’s this what bringing back manufacturing to NA. Be ready to serve the need or they will go somewhere else.

Technology has evolved so much and today I don’t want to work the way I worked 25 years ago.


Michael Fernando (CSWE)

http://www.solidCADworks.com

Tool and Die Designer
Siemens NX V8.5 + PDW
SWX 2013 SP3.0 X64
PDMWorks 2013
Logopress3
FastForm Advance
FormatWorks

 

[JohnRBaker]

Nothing says that you can't use NX in as an efficient and orderly fashion as you wish, just that we have provided a flexible system to accommodate what our CUSTOMERS think is important, NOT US. Besides, if you wish to enforce discipline, implement Teamcenter and define your OWN workflows and user roles and responsibilities (these tools weren't around 23 years ago). Or do you think CAD vendors should have the last word in how YOU run your business?

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[MFDO]

I don't want to comment on your question as we are starting to drift out of the topic.

Team centre - I thought it's mere PLM system and to my knowledge and experience in other PDM system, it doesn’t control how the file structures are built but by the CAD programs itself. Sorry, may be I’m mistaken or underestimated TC performance.

After having unutilised 3 PDW licences (Which would have had directly impact on our efficiency, if could have been implemented promptly) I don’t think that we could bear Teamcentre on top of that cost.


Michael Fernando (CSWE)

http://www.solidCADworks.com

Tool and Die Designer
Siemens NX V8.5 + PDW
SWX 2013 SP3.0 X64
PDMWorks 2013
Logopress3
FastForm Advance
FormatWorks

 

[SDETERS]

Assembly management from what point of view? You need to have a nice set of rules and standards in place is where I would start. You need to utilize and understand assembly arrangements. Usually we set up our assembly structure similar to how the parts are going to be assembled or detailed out in the B.O.M. Also you can think about using assembly component grouping to open only certain areas of your dies. (Advanced assembly license needed here) So if you only need to work on one area of the die you can open this assembly component group through the load options and work on this area only. Many different ways you can go about organizing your assembly structure. At the end of the day you will need to figure out what your end result needs to be, think about how things could possibly change and then set up your assembly to meet this end result. For your 5S you can set up checks in check mate to make sure rules and standards are followed. If you have a good programmer in house to write your custom checks.

 

[JohnRBaker]

Teamcenter will help enforce such things as the Master Model approach and can limit what uers can do if they attempt to circumvent that.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.