Just how complicated is SmartPlant 3D? 1

[dozer]

I'm kind of curious about the level of difficulty of SmartPlant 3D. I'm not a designer, but I hear them talking about how difficult things are quite often. The latest thing I heard about is we were going to upgrade everyone to Office 2013 but the SP3D guys spoke up and said that have to use Office 2010 otherwise their SP3D reports get all goofed up. We've got one guy who has two computers because his SP3D workstation won't run email or something (I forget exactly). I'm always hearing tales of woe like this and stories of why they can't do this or that or how difficult something is going to be.

Is SP3D really that complicated and unwieldy? If so, what makes it such a desirable package? I run some pretty powerful FEA programs so I get with much power comes higher levels of complexity but I don't get why SP3D is so popular when you have to jump through all these hoops. I would be interested to hear other people's slant on SP3D.

 

[Gator]

 

[Gator]

 

[Gator]

 

[Gator]

 

[dozer]

What book? Who is "we"? You've piqued my curiosity.

 

[Gator]

http://www.amazon.com/Planning-Piping-Design-Process-Handbooks/dp/1933762373

 

[IRstuff]

I don't necessarily think that the software discussed is "complicated." What may be "complicated" is the source code and maintenance thereof. While Microsoft can migrate and change its Office suite willy-nilly with few problems, smaller companies that supply engineering software are in a different boat. My math program of choice is Mathcad, which I've used since Mathcad 3.1 on DOS. Mathsoft, the originator, was always a small company, and over the years, they were able to patch and paste additional functionalities and keep up with ALL the changes in DOS and Windows, but by the 2002 M11 timeframe, there were gobs of legacy code and tons of unfixable problems. So, on version 12, they made a massive code re-write that was quite disastrous, and it took until M15 to rein in all the things that broke. PTC purchased Mathsoft somewhere in the v13 timeframe, and they decided to do a massive re-write as well after M15, which became Mathcad Prime 1. They didn't break much, but that was because they did babysteps, and there's no expectation that even MP4 will have all the functionality that M15 had back in 2011.

Large codebases suffer from a number of potential issues that can make life miserable for users:
> spaghetti code - difficult to maintain, and even more difficult to re-write
> hard coded parameters - little time bombs waiting for for some unsuspecting user to trip over them
> small user base - insufficient usage "churn" to pick up on problems
> low margins/volume - insufficient cash flow to pay for massive changes

TTFN
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!
faq731-376 forum1529

 

[dozer]

Hi IRstuff. Are you suggesting that Intergraph is a small company? I remember the Mathcad v. 12 debacle. To this day I don't advocate updating Mathcad as long as what we have is working. Probably unfair of me but they used up all their good will with me back then and have never earned it back. But I digress. Don't want to derail my own thread.

 

[IRstuff]

But, even Intergraph started small, so it's not impossible that there are gobs of legacy code floating around in the bowels. Moreover, as with PTC buying Mathsoft, Intergraph probably also grew by acquisition, so it's equally unclear whether the additions have clean code.

TTFN
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!
faq731-376 forum1529

 

[lemurfromearth]

Hi All,

Im currenty working as Sp3d Admin,
is Sp3d is complicated.?,

Ans : Yes and No.

The "No" Part:
-------------
For the users, its easy, in 2 weeks training with background in AutoCad/or Any Cad system,
then you can immediately do 3D models, and there is "undo" feature which is not present in PDS system

The "Yes" its Complicated:
---------------------------
For the Administrator,

(for routine activities)
1.) You must have background in SQL Server / Oracle Administration,
Creating SQL Queries by hand, for Special Report requirements.
2.) Advance MS Excel user, knows VBA , this is to have some automation is Excel Sheets
as Sp3d Catalogs and Specs are all in Excel
3.) Must have a good command of Batch programming (creating batch automation, file transfers, archiving etc)
4.) Maintain SmartPlant Review Extraction(SPR), model Color Filter and grouping , etc
5.) Create Backups, usually automated, but you have to archive and transfer the files to have physical redundant backups.
5.) Must have background in Windows Administration, Folder rights permission settings
6.) OS user management, Group creation/membership maintenance
7.) Group Policy Administration and settings, for auto project selection and other things when user transfer to another Sp3d project
8.) License management of workstation, if you don't Windows Administration Background then you to do this manually for each machines.!
9.) Isometric settings
10.) General Arrangement(GA) drawing production
11.) Special Support 2D Drawings production
12.) Reference Model settings("XREF" of 2D dwg drawings to SP3D),
13.) Project Restore and trouble shooting

(for Catalog maintenance)
1.) Must have training in Pipe Specs, Excel Sheets Data Relationships
2.) Sometimes this is done by another group which they use MARIAN or SmartPlant Reference Data
3.) But for simple changes you have basic know-how where to find a specific excel sheet/workbook for minor edits.

SP3D store all its data and graphics in a database, its has its own Graphics Engine,
(unlike PDS where it needs MicroStation for the Graphics.)
(this technology is similar to PDMS, all data in DB also, but PDMS uses its own DB format not SQLSERVER or ORACLE)

For the Office 2013/2010 part:
If you are using SP3d version 2014R1, you have to use Office 2010 "32bit" not "64bit", SP3D uses "32bit" techonology
But recently with Hotfix24 and up, Office 2013 32bit is now supported

(registration needed to access)
(

https://smartsupport.intergraph.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/25745/kw/office 2013),

 

[Gator]

 

[Gator]

 

[dozer]

After reading Gator's various excerpts from the book lemurfromearth's post, it's pretty clear to me that SP3D is really for large company's with large projects. I suspect that many companies vastly underestimate the technical expertise required to implement and maintain SP3D. Case in point. I noticed in the matrix above that structural detail drawings is checked for SP3D yet my company decided it couldn't be done and bought a very expensive steel detailing program to supplement SP3D. Could it really not be done or was it just too complicated to figure out?

 

[Gator]

I'd like to know how much it would cost for a single seat (fully-equipped for piping and equipment) of SP3D. The few times I've asked this question the answer has been "It depends" (I understand why, but some kind of ballpark figure would be useful).

 

[lemurfromearth]

Hi All,

Here's the current SP3D cost:
Per month for 1 License :

SP3D = 2,200 USD each
SPR(SmartPlant Review) = 560 USD each

 

[dozer]

How do they get away with charging that much for SmartPlant Review? It's a viewer for goodness sake! That's what I would have guessed for a perpetual license, maybe $1000.

 

[Gator]

dozer, probably that SmartPlant Review license is tied to accessing a database connected to a larger project or something. Some viewer programs are actually free, but for graphics only.

 

[dozer]

Nope, SPR is not tied to a live model. The SP3D modeler has to generate a .VUE file so that SPR can see it. In other words, it's a snapshot in time. What a stupid a$$ way to do it. At a previous job I had, they used PDMS. Us engineers could use it in some kind of read only mode so we had access to the live model. Or at least as live as it could be with multiple people working on it given that you had to "check in" your changes every once in awhile.

If I were controlling the purse strings, I wouldn't pay that much for it, but whatever the market will bear, right?