Air India 787 crashes on take off 1

[LittleInch]

A full 787-8 has crashed shortly after take off in ahmedabad.

Basically barely got off the ground then look like its trying to land in this video.

Air India flight to London Gatwick crashes in Ahmedabad with more than 240 people onboard – latest updates

Plane for flight AI171 was carrying 242 people including 169 Indians and 53 Britons, says Air India

www.theguardian.com

Specualtion that they pulled flaps up instead of gear up and basically didn't have enough lift so it looks like a gentle stall right into a built up area.

Looks to be flaps up, slats/ nose flaps down and gear down which is very odd.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Anyone seen if it was GE or RR on it?

I think the Trent had an issue with thrust reversers and uncommanded shutdown on landing.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Seems reports are coming out of electrical issues on the previous sectors.

It was Trent RR engines.

 

[thebard3]

They are GE engines. GE posted that they have activated their emergency response team to assist.

 

[SWComposites]

It was Trent RR engines.

wrong. was GE engines.

 

[Roga50]

This was an interesting photo of the flight deck ref the fuel cut off switches. Now it has been said that you need to lift and move, but not sure how much.

It kind of fits the pieces at the moment that somehow they managed to shut down both engines just after take off. Seems nuts, but feasible looking at this.

hope they release data soon as its clear its a major incident and people just don't like the idea that a modern airliner just fails to climb for no apparent reason.

View attachment 10757

Airbus models are almost the exact same layout.

 

[Roga50]

Watched a Captain Steeeve video this morning. He thinks the co-pilot pulled the flaps up instead of the landing gear.

That just seems so unlikely. The gear is located on the front panel, left and above the throttles. Flaps are along side the throttles, to the right. Completely different action needed to operate them. Shaped differently. I'd be shocked if the PNF could get that reversed....

 

[SnTMan]

Experienced flight crews have made all kinds of fatal mistakes. It happens.

I like Capt Steve's theory a lot. Except for the survivors' claim of hearing a bang...something broke it would seem.

Black boxes will no doubt tell the story.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

The bus ties decoupling due to fault can produce an alarming amount of noise.

Thanks for correcting engine type.

 

[LittleInch]

Most people on pprune are heading towards sudden engine shutdown with the RAT out abouf 10 secs after lift off and basically a glide into terrain.

The loss of ADSB data basically at the end of the runway plus the survivor saying the exit light started flashing on indicated total power loss.

The RAT going out apparently makes a hell of a bang.

Hopefully we find out soon.

 

[LittleInch]

Airbus models are almost the exact same layout.

So can you inadvertently kill fuel to the engines?

How do you turn the engines off normally?

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

By pulling upwards and then moving to off then releasing. It's not something you can do inadvertantly. The A220 is the same. You get a skin calus on your index finger lifting it.

There are some issues with liquids being spilt on those switches and engine shut downs. I can't remember the type it happened on. It was A350 and they have changed the design on it.

My gut feeling is that it was a sudden due engine shut down not mechanical failure. It's like simultaneously both fuel valves were shut. From the video I couldn't see any yaw indicating different power left or right.

 

[LittleInch]

I really hope this isn't a pilot suicide, but if this (deliberate engine shutdown) did happen then it might be impossible to know why.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

i don't think they could shut them down together so there is no yaw if they did.

I suspect its like the dual engine shut down on landing on the A220 when there is a throttle failure caution.

We shall see how many and what type of MEL items were open.

 

[TugboatEng]

Something to chew on, according to AI, there have been 12 emergency deployments of ram air turbines on civilian aircraft. 2 of those now on 787's meaning they have a disproportionate share of deployments. Perhaps this indicates a flaw in the redundancy of the electrical systems on the 787.

Also, it sounds like ground deployments of the RAT are somewhat common on ground power on the 787 possibly indicating a redundancy issue with the electrical system design.

 

[Sym P. le]

Whoopsies ...

Aviation expert urges airlines to stop hiring pilots who ‘aren’t qualified’ after Air India​

 

[TugboatEng]

I deleted my comment comparing this to Pakistani International Airlines 8303 where the cause was truly pilot incompetence now that current information indicates the RAT was deployed. There is speculation about the co-pilot retracting the flaps instead of the gear but that wouldn't cause the RAT to deploy.

As for pilot incompetence in the region, Yeti Flight 691 is another example incompetence where the co-pilot feathered the props instead of extending the flaps. Interestingly, the co-pilot's husband died flying as co-pilot in a crash under very similar circumstances in the same model aircraft 16 years earlier.

 

[Sym P. le]

This disaster is crying out for more information. Hopefully soon.

 

[TugboatEng]

The 787 fleet has been grounded previously due to battery fires with the lithium batters. It sounds like the batteries were enclosed in fire-proof boxes to protect the aircraft in the event of a battery fire and satisfy regulators. One of these lithium batteries is located in the after electrical equipment bay where all of the airplanes power passes through. Maybe the bang was the fire proof enclosure failing to be pressure proof.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

The region has issues with qualifications not just aviation and corruption.

I must admit Tug has just voiced a possibility I had been considering as a possibility with no proof.

to note the Engine FEDEC are powered by its own perm magnet generator so the aircraft electrics failure shouldn't in theory cause the engine to fail.

 

[TugboatEng]

The FADEC system may have its own power source but that doesn't mean the power for the throttle comes from that same source. To me FADEC means the engine has the ability to idle or shut itself down. The engine still needs an outside control to do anything but idle or shutdown.