Acceptability of Printed Digitally Stamped Drawings (WA State in Particular) 1

[KootK]

That was mouthful. So imagine this:

1) You digitally stamp some drawings in full compliance with all of the statues etc.

2) The building department insists on hard copies so your client prints out your drawings and turns 'em in.

Anybody experienced push back in terms of accepting the printed versions of the digitally stamped versions?

I would have thought that the printed set would have lost all of it's validity as a stamped document. However, I called the WA department of licensing and they said that it should be fine. I could hear a little hesitation in the guy's voice though.

Anybody have any personal experiences to to relay? Shipping drawings to WA form Canada is going to be a pain. That said, I don't want my client to be getting hassled at the desk.



I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.

 

[damorim]

In Manitoba, Canada, this is done all the time. Either copies of an original stamped set or even a printed set that has "original stamped by" over the engineer's seal. I imagine that specific jurisdictions could have different preferences they enforce though.

--
David Amorim, M.Sc., P.Eng.

 

[msquared48]

Depends on the jurisdiction here Koot. I have seen it both ways.

Check with the local building official and see what they will accept.

A lot of jurisdictions require fresh inked stamps for the protection of your stamp. I have had mine stolen twice in the past and can relate.

Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)

 

[KootK]

Thanks for chiming in damorim. Same for Alberta. In fact, I've taking to stripping out the true digital signature because it causes issues with PDF manipulation and none of the authorities even seem to be aware of its presence in the first place. BC on the other hand gives me all kinds of grief. They're all set up for digi-stamping but it seems that many of the jurisdictions insist on wet seal. Annoying, especially when you've paid all the fees etc.

I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.

 

[damorim]

Ouch, I'd imagine having your stamp stolen/reused would be quite the headache...

--
David Amorim, M.Sc., P.Eng.

 

[msquared48]

It was, but the local building departments caught it.

Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)

 

[topsisu]

Perhaps something similar to the State of ND requirements for electronic drawings will fit your situation:

Electronic reproductions of drawings, plan sheets, specifications, studies, reports, plats, maps,
and other engineering and surveying work product that are distributed to reviewing agencies,
owners, clients, contractors, suppliers, and others must either contain the electronic seal and
digital signature as required by this chapter, or have a digital signed and electronic sealed
statement from the registrant transmitting the same which shall read: [highlight #FCE94F]"This document(s) was
originally issued and sealed by (name), Registration Number (number) on (date)".The
statement shall also include the statement that "The original documents are stored at
(location)",[/highlight] or "The original documents have been destroyed and are no longer available",
whichever is applicable. Sets of plans or drawings must have this statement attached to every
sheet of the set. For specifications, reports, and studies, only the cover or introductory sheet
need include this statement.

 

[UcfSE]

Florida does not allow this. Electronic signatures are valid only on the electronic file. Hard copies must be wet sealed to be valid. Again, that's Florida.

 

[kipfoot]

The Structural Engineer's Association of Washington (SEAW) says that no wet seal or signature is required under State law. They acknowledge (like msquared said) that people at building departments have asked for it anyway.
Wet Sealing and Signing of Structural Submittals

 

[XR250]

That would suck if the bldg. departments required wet seals. I print off over 500 jobs per year and email all of them.
Most contractors want their stuff that day and my office is in the boonies.
Let's get realistic, though. Anyone can have a wet seal made to say anything. That does not guard against fraud.

 

[CBSE]

It all depends on jurisdiction. Some more remote counties require wet signed on one month and the next month they are fine with electronic stamping. It's really annoying.

 

[Archie264]

Anything other than hard copies with wet seals with dated signature over top the wet seals invites theft/fraud.

 

[msquared48]

Yup.

Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)

 

[KootK]

Thanks, everyone, for your help. I got in touch with the AHJ. This one's going to be a digital submission.

I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.

 

[dik]

KootK:
My seal is generally applied as a block on layer 0, on layer S-Anno-Seal, for example. The drawings are plotted with this and the block removed and purged. I sign and date the plot, and this drawing is scanned to a pdf.

A couple of times (in emergency situations) had the *.pdf file eMailed to me and I've applied a 'rubber stamp' pdf seal, signature and date. This has been returned, plotted and scanned with the original pdf file and 'rubber stamp' seal signature and date deleted (sent only to trusted people).

Dik

 

[OldBldgGuy]

Toronto no longer accepts paper drawings for permit applications. Electronic only.

 

[CBSE]

With the digital age, and ability to order anything off the internet, I have pretty much come to the conclusion that if someone really wants to steal my stamp, they are going to.

 

[Teguci]

I suppose from the limited perspective of preventing theft of seal, New Jersey is doing it right.

 

[KootK]

With the digital age, and ability to order anything off the internet, I have pretty much come to the conclusion that if someone really wants to steal my stamp, they are going to.

Speaking of, I made my own WA stamp digital image this morning. Surprisingly easy, even with curved text to mess with. I have a physical stamp that I could have scanned but I find that terribly inelegant. Hopefully I'm not violating any rules by doing my own digital doctoring. Frankly, I don't know how else to procure a digital image. I'm dying to show off my handiwork but that would be too much of a compromise to my cherished anonymity.

I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.

 

[Ingenuity]

cherished anonymity

We know who you are and they authorities are on to you

Nice art work - did you do this within Bluebeam Revu?