750 AUD per year for Engineer Australia membership. Is it a joke?

[TouV]

What services (if any) do they provide to ask this much? Or they can charge no matter how much they want since CPeng is mandatory?

 

[GregLocock]

They provide nothing. This is a scalping exercise. EA have already been paid to check my qualifications when I came in on a points based visa, now they want another $1500 to check them again. What they really want isn't the chickenfeed one off payments, it's providing 'authenticated' PDH which will generate a permanent income stream. Rent seekers' paradise.

 

[Tomfh]

A magazine once a month championing Net Zero by 2050, and women in STEM.

 

[TouV]

A magazine once a month championing Net Zero by 2050, and women in STEM.

And 20 pages of ads that EA makes extra money from their members.

 

[Retrograde]

I think the magazine is only every three months now.

 

[TouV]

They provide nothing. This is a scalping exercise. EA have already been paid to check my qualifications when I came in on a points based visa, now they want another $1500 to check them again. What they really want isn't the chickenfeed one off payments, it's providing 'authenticated' PDH which will generate a permanent income

The whole process of CPeng is also a joke. There are no exams but just interviews by someone who don’t even have engineering background. All EA cares about is money and money. I don’t understand why CPeng is not a one-off thing. Why the heck do we need to pay for EA every year for nothing and it seems that there is no way to stop them from raising the fee.

 

[bugbus]

I've said it before and I'll say it again - I believe EA's principle function is as a quasi immigration service for overseas engineers. That, and scalping money from membership fees. I don't actually know what it is they do to support engineering as a career in Australia, or how they advocate for Australian engineers - other than sending out a magazine and providing some CPD.

The quality of some overseas engineers I've worked with in the past, whose qualifications and skillsets have been given a big tick by EA, has been appalling unfortunately. Engineering salaries continue to be undermined as well by a constant influx of competition. I have no issues with working alongside overseas engineers, many of them are very much needed here and are great at what they do. But there needs to be a much greater focus on supporting local talent.

Agree with TouV that the process of CPEng is basically meaningless - I'm not convinced whatsoever that it demonstrates competency of any kind.

 

[rb1957]

much with same where I am ... I don't get much other than the privilege of being allowed to work, to call myself an "engineer", and I have to pay for my company to offer my services.

The process of getting my registration, also meaningless. After working for over 10 years they wanted me to take a bunch of technical exams ('cause my university, good ol' UNSW) wasn't blessed. I said "nuts" to that, and they let me have a board interview. So I sat with three guys who didn't know my field (one asked what a "nacelle" is; reply "where the engine is, like in Star Trek") and they concluded I would be a valuable addition to the local engineer fraternity.

Just the cost of doing business, another example of the erosion of the standards of "everything", and the growing lack of confidence (and distrust) in "anything".

 

[human909]

• You don't have to have a CPEng, it is not mandatory.
• You don't have to be a member of Engineers Australia
• Depending on your state laws you do need an assessment by a suitable accreditation body and you do need to have CPD audited (I believe every three years)

I went through my professional assessment through the Association of Professional Engineers Australia. Though I can't say my experience is much different from the those complaining about Engineers Australia.

Many states are moving or have most to a state based registration system. Being suitable registered and insured is what matters. Though suitably registered requires accreditation from one of the recognised local or international accreditation bodies.

 

[GregLocock]

"

• You don't have to have a CPEng, it is not mandatory."

Yes you do in automotive in Victoria. If you do engineering type calculations, bang you are up for it. https://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/lic...essional-engineers/who-needs-to-be-registered

 

[human909]

• You don't have to have a CPEng, it is not mandatory."

Yes you do in automotive in Victoria. If you do engineering type calculations, bang you are up for it. https://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/lic...essional-engineers/who-needs-to-be-registered

Nowhere does that say that you require a 'CPEng'. I practice in Victoria. I'm a registered structural engineer by the Victorian government institution you linked. I don't have CPEng. CPEng is and Engineers Australia accreditation. Engineers Australia is a privately run NGO. CPEng is simple one of the many pathways that one can choose to get a recognised accreditation in Australia.

The BLA has approved these TEN assessment entities.

Public record of assessment entities

The public record of assessment entities and schemes for professional engineers registration.

www.consumer.vic.gov.au

 

[rowingengineer]

I think an rpeng is similar to a cpeng, is what was being put forward.

 

[human909]

I think an rpeng is similar to a cpeng, is what was being put forward.

Possibly... But even then there are other paths that aren't RPEng. Also such qualifications aren't required federally and not all states have required registration. Including the most populated state NSW which only requires it class 2, 3 or 9c buildings.

Before state registration, CPEng or similar could be used as evidence of competency. But it wasn't a legal requirement. I was "signing off" and "certifying" things before I was registered or had CPEng or any other accreditation. I can still do that in NSW too for most structures.

 

[Enhineyero]

Yes, EA can charge this much and its because of one word: Apathy.

Last time I checked most Australian Engineers only concern themselves with their own projects and invoices. Not the state of the profession. Not legislation around engineering. Not even their own pay. We are just too busy minding our own business and paying our bills. When will it change? I dont know, may be when its too late.

 

[human909]

Yes, EA can charge this much and its because of one word: Apathy.

Very true.

And this is the same reason how many major companies can manage to pull in high margins. Be it utility companies, car insurance, home mortgages. If you don't shop around you don't get the best deal.

While there are 10 accredited assessment organisations in Victoria. Most of us only have a choice of two. I didn't choose Engineers Australia partly due to all the negative comments like in this thread. I'm not sure Association of Professional Engineers Australia is any better.......

Either way. The accreditation fees are pocket change compared to insurance, software and other costs. And you don't NEED to be a member to get accreditation.

 

[GregLocock]

50 hours of billable hours lost to PDH is non trivial. $16000 a year is quite a whack. Admittedly /some/ of our exciting internal training courses probably count towards PDH, which I suppose reduces the agony. But I bet some don't -sample question "You find a USB stick in the carpark. Do you (a) request a USB deviation and find out what's on it so you can return it to the owner (b) Hand it in to IT (c) throw it in the e-waste bin (d) ignore it."

 

[dik]

50 hours of billable hours lost to PDH is non trivial. $16000 a year is quite a whack.

Concur... if PDH has been in effect for a few years, you should be able to approach the association and ask them if there has been an improvement in the profession (statistically) because of its implementation. When it comes to PDH, WAFWOT comes to mind.

 

[TouV]

Very true.

And this is the same reason how many major companies can manage to pull in high margins. Be it utility companies, car insurance, home mortgages. If you don't shop around you don't get the best deal.

While there are 10 accredited assessment organisations in Victoria. Most of us only have a choice of two. I didn't choose Engineers Australia partly due to all the negative comments like in this thread. I'm not sure Association of Professional Engineers Australia is any better.......

Either way. The accreditation fees are pocket change compared to insurance, software and other costs. And you don't NEED to be a member to get accreditation.

I’m based in Victoria, and you’re right — CPeng is not mandatory, only RPeng is. However, most people opt for CPeng anyway since they’re applying for registration regardless. Another reason is that the company I previously worked for required CPeng/NER registration and EA membership for senior roles, and I believe many other companies have similar policies.


I have no issue with the fees for insurance or software — they have legitimate reasons for their charges. However, I struggle to see the justification for annual fees associated with CPeng or NER, whether through Engineers Australia or Professionals Australia.


I can’t speak for PEA, but in my experience, holding CPeng status with EA doesn’t demonstrate a person’s competency at all. The entire process feels somewhat flawed — most people around me have been able to obtain it as long as they can prove they’ve worked in the industry for at least three years and are willing to pay the required fees. Unlike countries like the US, there’s no exam involved. The interview process, in my opinion, often consists of superficial questions asked by individuals who aren’t even engineers themselves.

 

[GregLocock]

Given that the assessments are done by the same organisations that vet immigrants, I imagine they'd have a hard time rejecting an application on the basis of overseas experience or degree that they've already let through to get a visa.

 

[KevinNZ]

NZ was going to copy OZ and require the registration of all "engineers" but now certification will only be required for certain work.

We will still have CPeng if you want it even if working in field with no statutory requirement.

In OZ what is the definition of "engineer" and does this catch out unintended workers?