2001i was worth it, 11 isn't.

The main bug-bear is the activation (similar to Windows XP) This essentially installs the 'spyware' (called SafeCast) on your computer.

The additional features, IMHO, are not worth the money. I upgraded and have now gone back to 2001i, mainly due to the activation issue. I really like Mathcad as an engineering tool but I will not be upgrading in future.
 

While Safecast does make spyware, C_dilla license activation is not spyware and there are other programs going that route, so you'll need to get used to doing that.

TTFN

Is it worth it t oupgrade from version 8?

Depends on what you're doing.  

For most general calculations, probably not

There are a bunch of bug fixes, added support for diffeq's, multiple undo's, but it's still basically the same program.

TTFN

The Mathcad 2000 that I have is the standard version. Still worth it to upgrade to M11?

Like I said it depends on what you're doing, mathwise.

There are a bunch of recalcitrants   still running v7, so it's very possible that you might not need to upgrade.  If you've looked at the feature list on the Mathsoft website and nothing grabs you, then it's probably not worth the extra expense.

TTFN

I understand that C_DILLA is part of the activation system but does it really have to take up 1.2Mb on my computer.

Download and run a free program called Spybot and see what that turns up!

It is unfortunate that software is starting down this route. I have no pirated software and as a professional engineer would never dream of using it. I would prefer a hardlock route to software protection.

I'm still using V5!  Generally quite happy with it, and it gets the job done.  Some limitations are annoying, such as the default unit systems, and the graphing is limited.  If all you want to do is crunch numbers, the version you have doesn't matter.

STF

Do I win some sort of medal? - I use v4 !

We had 5+ at my last place of work, it was much better than v4. I had a play with 2001, I liked the programming features, but hated the interface. I seemed to have to retype every equation (but I hadn't done the tutorial so it was probably my fault).

A combination of Mathcad and Excel with VBA solves all of my mathematical needs.

 

Cheers

Greg Locock

The only reason I upgraded was because we needed a new licence, and 2000 pro was no longer available.  Downsidesare that

1] I have to explicitly save everything in 2000 format (because the rest of the section is still on 2000, and my budget doesn't stretch to upgrading them as well just because I need one more licence), and
2] mathconnex has vanished.

Seems I now have to by VisSim if I want mathconnex functionality - ie more $$$ for something I got for nix before.  So the upgrade wasn't really, it was more a downgrade.

But I must confess I hadn't done anything too critical using mathconnex, and many of the features in v11 overcome some of the difficulties - sliders, buttons, and other such things are much more easily put directly into worksheets now.

Bung
Life is non-linear...

I'm confused.  Mathconnex was available for 2001 and is available for v11 as well.  I'm pretty sure it was available as a download for 2000 also.

TTFN

IRStuff & AJUK :

Follows a copy of ltr. sent to Mathsoft's Allen Radzow, Senior Vice President of Products and Services, re: the subject of Product Activation, relating the bad experience that INTUIT had with its inclusion in their TurboTax product last year. It cost them a significant loss of revenue as people were not buying it and many of those that did, returned it, with complaint, for a $$$ refund They have removed from this year's product, and wrote a letter appology to their customers.

Consumer revolt that impacts the "bottom line" is still the most effective way to get the message across.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Allen,
 
The folks at Intuit were slow to learn that their users were extremely annoyed at the "Product Activation" technology imbedded in their TurboTax program last year. They were annoyed to the point of returning the product for full refund, vowing never to use the product again, and, filing a Class- Action lawsuit. The worst sin was....that it affected their "bottom line" sales numbers; which suffered a major decline from preceding years.
 
This same technology is employed in your current Mathcad product.
 
Perhaps you could profit and learn from other's mistakes and in so doing, re-examine the Mathsoft policy that places this abhorent technology in your products thus preventing me and other Mathsoft users from using their products both at home and at their offices.
 
You will find the article at the link below, including the mention of the fact that Tom Allanson, senior vice president of Intuit's consumer tax group, wrote an open letter of appology to TurboTax customers on Thursday.
 
 
http://www.pcworld.com/resource/printable/article/0,aid,112858,00.asp

If people would stop pirating the software, I think Mathsoft would be more than willing to forego the licensing, but that's the trend, given the amount of piracy being experienced.

TTFN

IRSTUFF & AJUK:

Just after I posted, I received a reply from Allen Radzow at Mathsoft.

Allen advises that they are indeed concerned about the "Product Activation" issue. He goes on to say that, "Mathsoft acknowledges the problems some users experience, and the deep distaste for activation felt by some users."

Their Product Management Organization is at this time gathering input and data on this in consideration of their next release.

This is a good time to make your voice heard if you find 'Product Activation' distasteful or an impediment to future consideration and purchase of their products.

Allen Radzow:  aradzow@mathsoft.com


IRSTUFF:

As a software developer, I have a poignant appreciation for the software piracy problem... but "throwing the baby out with the bathwater"...so to speak, is not a viable solution.

At the time i started this thread I was seriously considering buying the upgrade but after learning of the activation feature I will not upgrade. It is not a matter of piracy but of convenience. That is one of the reasons I haven't upgraded to Windows XP ( I don't agree with the Microsoft policy of serializing the software to your computer components making it almost impossible to upgrade components unless you buy a new license and I consider this abusive and unfair) I rather prefer to make the move to Linux and use the Windows 98 SE platform only to run programs as long as I can avoid the upgrade to whatever comes after XP). The Microsoft protection scheme in Windows 98 is bad enough for me to be fed up with all their software and their faulty programs that fail to recognize time after time the originals from the pirated copies ( and their faulty security flaws also) I think the protection schemes are getting to the point of rendering computers useless because you spend more time fixing hard disks, reinstalling programs, installing security patches and restarting your computer after frezee-ups than using it on productive work.
It is a senseless activity. Ahaaaa how much I miss the good old days of true computer liberty...

Well, why not go to a proper operating system like Windows 2000?

It is stable and has no product activation. My workstation at work has uptimes of the order of weeks, usually limited by the company I work for which insists we re-boot after various updates.

Unfortunately Linux lacks an Office compatible spreadsheet, (yesterday I watched open office take 5 minutes to open a spreadsheet that consisted of 100 short columns added up, for the most part and then crash) and of course Mathcad is not available for Linux, and doesn't seem to work under WINE.

And I'm sure if you think back you will accept that modern PCs running modern OSs are MUCH more reliable than they were 10 years ago.

Cheers

Greg Locock

I agree with GregLocock, Windows 2000 will be the last OS I buy from Micro$oft. As Linux develops I hope that more professional level software, such as Mathcad, will become available. If so, I would switch tommorrow.

jOmega, thanks for the information regarding Mathsofts' position. It's very interesting and it restores my faith in them, they seem to be listening to their customers, unlike Micro$oft!

If the activation is removed from the next version, I will upgrade, if it is still included then I will stick with 2001i, it's as simple as that.

Regards

AJUK

You see, I have determined that in my case Windows 98 SE is more or less stable as long I don't use it for surfing the web and accessing the Microsoft web page to download upgrades and patches (sometimes just accessing it!). My copy is original but it keeps crashing time after time corrupting itself and constantly  giving me messages of "this program has performed an illegal operation" and sometimes freezing up dead on its tracks. I have 512 MB memory and have memory problems loading web pages and applications with only 4 or 5 resident programs installed (nothing big, just mouse utilities, keyboard and firewall). This has happened to me with either 512 MB and 256 MB memory so it is not a matter of memory running out. I had to make countless hard disk low level formats and Windows reinstalls to regain control and stability for some time then it happens again. At present I'm in the verge of a new one since Windows is misbehaving again (frequent frezee-ups, frequent messages, frequent blue screens of death, etc).

Linux would give the best of both worlds since I can use it for only surfing and then use Windows only for running applications that demand it since Linux allows the installation of additional OS. The problem here is Microsoft's predatory tactics to protect their buggy and poorly finished OS ( DOS with all its limitations was a lot more stable than whatever Windows has ever been, but then, DOS was not a true Microsoft program, was somebody else's brain child). As far I have seen, Microsoft has failed miserably in delivering a true stable and secure OS platform, version after version (just think of the many "security flaws" we have come to witness).

By the way, has anybody given any thought of what would happen if any software manufacturer could have unauthorized access to the PC's Intel processor serial number without the PC owner knowing it? Would that be the type of copy protection that some software manufacturers are choosing to do linking their software to the processor's serial number ? I certainly wouldn't like to buy any software that has this type of protection if it exists. In a sense, at present I wouldn't buy any Mathsoft upgrade until they deal with this issue and give us a better product. I agree that the computer hardware lock is a good alternative albeit more expensive.

You have too much memory for 98SE! Try 128 or 256 M again. You /may/ be able to disable the extra RAM by setting up a DOS RAM drive which you can then use as a swap file (the last is wild speculation).

Incidentally, I was wrong, Mathcad v4 seems to run fine under WINE/KDE/Knoppix 3.2. It took perhaps 5 minutes to get going (I was bored waiting for it so didn't notice when it sprang to life) but once it did then it seemed to work fine, although I didn't stress it very much. Incidentally, unlike the screenshots on the WINE webpage, it renders properly. I am quite impressed.

Cheers

Greg Locock

I found Mathconnex - it is on the mathsoft website as aseparate download, and not on the mathcad 11 CD.

It took me about 10 days to get my activation code sorted out, and  two goes - I had to re-install as a result of some other computer trouble (usual helpdesk hit 'n hope style of fixing problems) so the original activation code didn't work on the second install.  Not impressed - does this mean that an arbitrary change to my registry could make mathcad fall over?!

Bung
Life is non-linear...

beercia:

One of my systems is running 98SE. Came with 256 Meg.

Last year it started bogging down.... got Out Of Memory messages, and lock-ups...

Monitored system resources and found that memory was getting used up ... 98SE is a memory hog.

Also noted that when apps closed, memory allocation wasn't being recalibrated.... so, as each new application was opened, memory consumption kept increasing....even though other apps were being closed.

Added another 256 Meg....and that brought me back to <50% consumption at the start... however... memory re-allocation wasn't happening when apps were closed.

Since discovered that Microsoft still hasn't fixed the problem of releasing memory when an application closes.
Supposed to be fixed in Win 2K... wasn't... supposed to be fixed in XP .... isn't.

Read an article about needing a memory manager to do the job that Microsoft should have done.

Now, no more problems.

Am running AMS's Fast DeFrag 2.0 Standard (freebie)
It actively defrags memory.

No more problems... and no problems whatsoever with 512 Meg on Win 98SE.

http://www.amsn.ro/

jOmega

I had a memory manager (shareware) installed and things improved a bit but after the trial period ended things actually got worst, even after I uninstalled the memory manager. I will try your suggestion and see what happens.

Microsoft is notorious for not fixing bugs on subsequent versions of its software. I have seen the same problem with Excel  (98 and 2000) where there is a range of cells that will not copy (either copy or move, I'm not sure which) correctly from other cell range. Same range on both versions. Apparently Microsoft only cares in bringing out "new" version after version of the same buggy software to keep the money flow coming without really caring if it is a good and quality product blaming the resulting consumer chaos on the "complexity" of the Windows platform. I' ve been a PC user since 1985 and have seen this happen over and over again to this platform (again, remember the security flaw fixes, fix after fix, problem continues).
By the way, have you noticed the strange back-off (it jumps from 96% back to 85 and the jumps to 96% again) that the scan bar makes when the blue screen disk scanner that comes with Win 98 nears the end of the hard disk scan? It happens to me after getting frequent messages from Windows 98 of impending freeze-ups due to "illegal program operations".

Mathsoft on the other hand has a terribly good software but sometimes has a very curious way of licensing its products to make the life of every user miserable. I have used most  Mathcad versions right from 1.0 to 2000 ( mainly to calculate specific design problems in lieu of spreadsheets) and things keep getting worst with every new version that comes out. Improvements also are not always as intuitive as the original program was. Sometimes they get into a very complicated menu selection process specially when Mathcad interacts with external applications.

beercia

When was the last time you cleaned up your registry.

Also, you do know that it will be necessary to melt down and re-install about once a year.  

Real Pain in the burro ... but it cleans up a lot of accumulated sins.

Keep your system/files backed-up ..

The proof of your words re: Microsoft - look at all the security patches.... almost daily ...

"Never enough time to do it right.... always enough time to do it over".... would seem to be their motto.

And is this their service policy :

"If our service isn't up to your standards, please lower your standards."

Go figure.

jO

The v11 ODBC interface is better too.  In 2001i it would read 2-3 sets of records and lock the computer so tight I had to pull the power cord and battery.  A real pain when dealing with 100 sets of 20,000 points each.  In v11 it never failed once.

Other than that I don't see much difference.

David

I appreciate the licensing flexibility.  We bought the Enterprise version for LAN workstations and are also allowed to install on laptop and stand-alone workstations.

So I am informed, C-Dilla runs continuously even when MathCad isn't running.

If you uninstall MathCad, it doesn't remove C-Dilla.

You are allowed to make 2 installations of MathCad from disc, and use the automatic registration (one for your desktop one for your laptop). If you replace either machine you need to contact your MathSoft dealer to get your reinstallation activated.

I have also been informed by a usually reliable source that C-Dilla inserts itself into such a high priveledge level that it bypasses your operating system safety features, then 'permanently' opens a port onto the Internet which bypasses any firewall protection that you have in place. I am not in a position where I can actually verify that this is so, perhaps someone with more know how could provide a definitive answer to this point.

Dave R.

Mathcad de-installation does not remove C-Dilla, because there are other applications that use the Safecast licensing software.

TTFN

SafeCast takes up 1.3mb, so it must be doing something other than verifying licensing activations!

I'll stick with 2001i until this is removed from the software.

I recently installed Mathcad 11 Service Pack 2 on my laptop that runs Windows 98.  I had problems with the installation, as I was warned that I might have with Windows 98.  The fix was to uninstall Mathcad and reinstall from the CD, then install SP1 and SP2.

I was really concerned that the registration would mess me up because this is the second computer that I have Mathcad 11 installed on.  Much to my surprise, everthing went well.  The registration process worked with no hitches, and the program works fine.

Mathsoft has been relatively good about the licensing.

I've got V11 installed on 3 machines; called them up and they gave me a 2nd installation code for the 3rd copy.

My C_Dilla folder shows 44kB, with 3 licenses installed, so anything larger than that is an installation problem with Safecast

TTFN

IRstuff

I have tried Mathcad 11 on two machines and both times the SafeCast is around 1.2mb, strange!

It is a shame that this issue is causing trouble with some users (well, me anyway) as Mathcad is such a fantastic and usefull software.

I usually do backups with Norton Ghost onto DVDs but sometimes if I don't want to hang around and change DVDs I backup to another identical hard drive.  Mathcad 11 won't work on that hard drive even though it is in the same computer.  It is a real pain.  

In addition I had to restore my hard drive to a previous configuration due to crashes in Autocad 2004 and now I have to contact Mathsoft in order to reinstall Mathcad 11.  Haven't gotten around to it yet.

The only useful feature on 11 that I even noticed over 2001i was the ability to "bump" regions around and get them lined up easier.  Stick with 2000 or 2001i

As far as activation goes I am sure that there are code breakers in the military or secret services of the countries that are notorious for piracy who can get around that and create copies that don't need activation anyway.  We all know who they are.

Just my 2 cents,
DPA

ref :office compatable spreadsheet for Linux"

Open Office has a pretty decent spreadsheet module, and it does read simple XLS sheets.
No idea how far the compatability extends, and for sure it won't have VBA...

regards
Jay

Jay Maechtlen

The import and export facility in OO is actually pretty good, although it is not very good at charts, and as you say VBA is a non starter. The macro language in OO is enormously powerful, but, so far as I can tell, is the language that the applications themselves are written in, which means that quick hacks are out, for me at least. This may not be a bad thing in the long term, it would be nice to have a robust macro language.

Given that VBA is a simple language (conceptually) it surprises me that they have not put a translator in, at least for the bits that can be understood. At present it just includes the entire VBA code commented out.

Exporting is actually rather more succesful than importing. I exported a large complex sheet and I think it needed one edit to run properly. The sad truth is that when I had done so I realised that it ran much faster in Excel, and Excel doesn't crash nearly as often.

Cheers

Greg Locock