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The power grid is still under attack...
7

The power grid is still under attack...

The power grid is still under attack...

(OP)
We had a rather long discussion in this topic last year, but that thread is now closed so I'm starting a new one. For reference, here's the link to that old thread:

https://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=500531

So as to start this new thread, there's this item:

Extremists keep trying to trigger mass blackouts — and that’s not even the scariest part

Extremist groups are among those targeting the electricity network, exposing the reporting gaps between the state and federal agencies that oversee its security.


https://www.politico.com/news/2023/09/10/power-gri...

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

RE: The power grid is still under attack...

...like weather, this type of activity seems to be getting worse and doesn't seem to improve.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: The power grid is still under attack...

Did they ever identify the shooter? Did the shooter fit the narrative? Or was it some random act of drunkenness?

Is "extremists" the new name for the Biden administration? They seem to be the ones most likely to cause large scale blackouts.

Dik, you're obsessed.

RE: The power grid is still under attack...

It's activists who are now clued up due to media reporting what actually worked what ever flavour of political stupidity they support.

RE: The power grid is still under attack...

It's going to cost you billions to deal with

RE: The power grid is still under attack...

Tug. Debunked. It's just those leftist squirrils and gophers acting up on their wild weekends.
Those nuts are known to shoot at roadsigns, old bottles, watermelons and the moon. Why not the odd electric system,

The article doesn't make a lot of sense. Seems like the power companies know they are being attacked. FBI knows. DOE knows. At least about the incidents that meet reporting requirements. Public utility commissions for the most part are political appointees that seldom know or care about anything other then keeping rates as high and as confusing as possible. The power companies apparently don't even care, as long as Wall Street isn't affected and the insurance companies keep on paying for the damages. They continue to build in less security then plastic piggy banks. Seems to be just a story about another clueless PUC official.



--Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

RE: The power grid is still under attack...

I don't think that is completely right. The company I work for is not too concerned with Wall street, as we are a non-profit, like many utilities in this country. Many large electricity customers, can and will move operations based partly on the price they pay for electricity. So public utility commissions, who are normally appointed by the governor, are concerned about jobs in there communities, so they are sensitive to electricity prices. And it is true some IOU's will try to game the system for wall street, they get restricted in the end.
The public utility commissions do not care about cyber security, but the grid operators and NERC do. The security in most cases is pretty tight. The physical security, in some cases is tight, but what can you do about thousands of miles of transmission lines, and thousands of small substations.
Yes it is possible to take out an area, but the whole grid, not very easy.

About insurance, many parts of utility operations are self insured. The number of incidents, will affect the rates people pay for electricity. Also what affects the price of electricity, is taxes. So as a voter, you do have an effect on electric rates.

RE: The power grid is still under attack...

Yes, protecting wires is not at all practical. Pipeline companies do not protect the pipelines themselves, as they are relatively easy to repair, so security features are concentrated at the high value targets, pump/compressor stations and terminals. Patrols of pipelines routes are mostly done only in problem areas. In Colombia we would keep a stock of pretested pipe and block valves to make quick replacements when the guerrillas were blowing us up twice a week. One year we had 240 attacks on the pipeline. Army bases were located within a few km or so, if not immediately adjacent to the field production Plants and our pump stations and naval patrols at the loading terminal.



--Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

RE: The power grid is still under attack...

I have only interacted with one state PUC, and my state PUC appointees seem to care very deeply about how regulations impact both the price and the reliability of electricity. The PUC has to balance lots of competing interests, so I give them a bit grace if their priorities don't exactly align with my priorities.

RE: The power grid is still under attack...

Well I bet you don't live in Texas. smile

--Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

RE: The power grid is still under attack...

Texas is a whole other country, and they act like it.

RE: The power grid is still under attack...

2
I am not sure the greatest risk to the electrical T+D system is terrorism- it is problably the failure to modify and update it for the new woke method of generating and distributing electric power. Generating most daytime power from solar PV from consumer homes and from wind turbines imposes stresses on the T+D system for which its legacy components were not designed. Perhaps the failure at Maui may be related to backfeed of power from solar PV , which is not as well controlled as that from central stations.

This problem will become more visible as the home smart meters and EV rechargers are modified to incorporate "demand management" . I suppose a rational way to review the need for T+D upgrades will require the use of monte carlo modeling of the system using real data fom prior years but assuming greater use of renewables and demand mangement.

"...when logic, and proportion, have fallen, sloppy dead..." Grace Slick

RE: The power grid is still under attack...

4
What happens to all that solar power during a solar eclipse? Natural gas anyone?
No the grid was not designed for inverter based resources that don't act like rotating machines. All those inverters with the low inertia, tends to move us closer to voltage and frequency collapse.
Worse is the owners of these don't care, and refuse to upgrade there software to correct deficits in there product.

RE: The power grid is still under attack...

Software upgrades need to be installed automatically by the mfgrs. I don't DIY upgrades to my car software.

--Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

RE: The power grid is still under attack...

What eclipse - the one that those below the Arctic circle see daily? For which battery systems are created to manage?

Sure, clouds and snow happen, but even in Texas with direct pipelines from natural gas fields the generator turbines stopped running due to poor regulation allowing ineffective designs.

I wonder if radio transmission for inverter synchronization would help. The free-space speed of light is a little higher than by wire so advanced warning and knowledge of the propagation delay difference might be able to keep it all going.

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