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A350 ?

A350 ?

(OP)
has anyone seen this little panel, pops up between the inbd aileron and the outbd flap ??
pic taken pre-takeoff

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

RE: A350 ?

Flaperon?

RE: A350 ?

Are you sure it moves?

Google “A350 plan view”. Seems to be a fixed panel.

RE: A350 ?

Looks to be solid and there because there is a change in angle of the wing at that point. The aileron is just down a bit as well as flaps down.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

RE: A350 ?

(OP)
it doesn't pivot, but it does translate.

in normal flight (and sitting at the gate) the T/E is straight (as designers would intend).

for take-off it pops up (and sits there), as shown. in the pic the aileron is undeflected.

my recollection is that for landing it is back at its "normal" position.

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

RE: A350 ?

I've seen that yes...wondered if it was acting as an aero fence between the two trailing edge flap sections.

RE: A350 ?

Any idea which version of the A350 this was?

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

RE: A350 ?

Aren't the flaps inboard and the ailerons outboard?

I see that the spoilers are supposed to be configured to lay down onto the flaps to give a crude wing-morph, but they also need to pop up at some point to be spoilers, so maybe this is to give that last spoiler some room.

It's strange that there isn't some obvious mention of such an odd feature popping up like that.

You need a better seat to get a better photo. It's odd not to see the flap canoes.

RE: A350 ?

btrue - doesn't matter, inboard is flaps-only.

RE: A350 ?

it is the little part between the outboard flap and inboard aileron.

here:


I think "movement" of it is an illusion as the flaps and ailerons move.

RE: A350 ?

I saw the same photo, but it does look like it could move. Now why is not clear, but it might just be to allow the flaps to move without clashing with any part as the wing edge changes at that point.

That top photo looks like it is higher than the normal wing profile.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

RE: A350 ?

(OP)
the A350 has split ailerons ... hence inbd and outbd (or "flight" and "ground").
but yes, the flaps are inbd of this panel and the ailerons outbd.

flap canoes further inbd.

Yes, in the first photo, this panel is deployed above the wing ... I know, I saw it.
I never noticed it rotate or deflect in any way. My memory is that during landing, it initially popped up (like on take-off) then maybe retracted (to the normal T/E position) as flaps deployed more.

It might have been an A350-9

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

RE: A350 ?

Would it be to allow sufficient clearance between control surfaces fairing due to wing flex under landing / ground loads.

RE: A350 ?

Couldn't you climb over the people in the seats 3 rows ahead of you for a better shot?
The flight attendants are strapped down during takeoff so it will take a moment for them to interfere with your photo.

Translating "up" could mean several things, but I admit I'm in the passenger's position like you: looks interesting but it's not obvious why.

RE: A350 ?

It's fixed trailing edge structure.
How do i know?
I haven't read every word of this, but i see no mention of what would
otherwise be a rather novel feature of questionable purpose/effectiveness.
https://www.icas.org/ICAS_ARCHIVE/ICAS2014/data/pa...

A350 high lift config is more or less the same as 787.

RE: A350 ?

Furthermore on a350, like most types, this is the location of the fuel jettison. Would be pretty difficult to spatially integrate a moveable surface in the same location given such limited spanwise real estate.

RE: A350 ?

(OP)
@verymadmac ... why would the A350 be different to any other commercial transport?

@Ng2020 ... it may be fixed, but it does deploy !? it was aligned with the T/E before flaps deployed (and in cruise ... a strike against vmm ?) then popped "up" (well, it deployed vertically in a direction away from the ground) whilst the flaps were in their take-off setting.

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

RE: A350 ?

It's either fixed trailing edge structure, or moveable, not both :)

Flight control system architecture
https://www.parlonsaviation.com/wp-content/uploads...

I can't argue with what you saw, but I've not yet seen anything special documented about the flap/aileron closeout. Then again I don't have knowledge of the program, nor have I flown on one so I'll bow out here.

RE: A350 ?

(OP)
you said it was part of the fixed T/E. I said it deployed.

I have no comment on fuel jettison.

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

RE: A350 ?

Quote (rb1957)

why would the A350 be different to any other commercial transport?
I don't know, maybe the current gen of active gust alleviation allows for reduced wing stiffness which results in a critical clearance case during flight with flaps extended & max aileron deflection.

RE: A350 ?

(OP)
I'm thinking it's a different model A350 ... my pic doesn't show something (fuel dump ?) sticking out the T/E.

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

RE: A350 ?

Yes it is part of FTE structure. Laminar composite panel with thickness similar to the frontal armor of MBT. Initially it was planned as a sandwich panel as other one components of FTE but gentlemen from Toulouse keep reducing it's size and finally we have realized that there is no room for honeycomb core - instead there is ~60!! plies solid laminate (called within team i've worked "plank"). Function of this part is sweet secret of aero team from Toulouse - probably first approved CFD model has this and later no one was interested in pushing reasonable revision through AI's bureaucracy... than it is as it is :D - never underestimate human laziness :D. This is not sole example within this airplane's design where common sense has been replaced by SQL servers - so far it is only program i've worked where as a basis for structural analysis has been generated c.a. 17mln load cases :D.

RE: A350 ?

To clarify, jaceb can you confirm it does not move?

RE: A350 ?

(OP)
ah, "the gentlemen from Toulouse" !!

and to clarify, can you confirm that it does move. My pic shows that it is clearly above the wing T/E.

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

RE: A350 ?

is member of the wing's FTE subassembly - fixed trailing edge - is not movable part

RE: A350 ?

(OP)
ok, how do you explain the pic ?

do the aileron's droop for take-off ?

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

RE: A350 ?

Flaperons and I bet they do. The joy that is fly by wire.

RE: A350 ?

rb1957,

It certainly looks like it. A number of sources say that the A350 inner aileron droops slightly when the flaps are extended.

e.g. https://www.parlonsaviation.com/wp-content/uploads... page 11

There is something that where the flaps are max extended they don't droop, but otherwise the action seems to be that both flaps and ailerons move down but it would probably look like the little bit moves up as you don't expect the aileron to move down?

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

RE: A350 ?

rb1957,
yes - ailerons drop off for take off, and i think as well this is part of low speed control laws in general, but it is my guess only, i haven't been involved in control system design for this project

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