Dive boat disaster in California... 2

I'm assuming that in the end, this will be considered at least an accidental disaster, but from what I've learned, I suspect that it will also be considered an 'engineering' failure, perhaps not with respect to the source or origin of the fire, that's yet to be determined, but at least with respect to the situation that resulted in so many people's lives being lost.

At Least 25 People Killed, 9 Missing In California Boat Fire

Officials searching for survivors off the coast of Santa Cruz Island say to prepare for “the worst outcome.”


An old college buddy of mine (the ex-CIA guy) is a diver and goes on at least one dive trip somewhere around world each year. He said that years ago, he booked a dive trip on this same boat out in California. He said he would never do it again, because, as he described it, it was a disaster waiting to happen.

As you can see from the diagram below, the 'guest' quarters was a single, large cabin which slept up to 46 people (this could have been an even bigger disaster). There was only a single narrow stairway and a single hatch to get out of the cabin. The reason that the crew members all survived is because they slept on the lounge furniture on deck.



Note that I'm NOT a diver. Heck, swimming to me is staying alive while I'm in the water ;-)

Anyway, I figured this background info might help explain why this disaster is turning out the way that it is, at least in terms of why the death toll was so high.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

JohnRBaker said:

Heck, swimming to me is staying alive while I'm in the water

Click to expand...

I was in the navy many years ago. I spent 3 years on ships and that's enough to make me afraid to go to sea on anything smaller than a cruise ship (you'd have to talk me into that). You also won't find me on Lake Erie in a boat.

What a terrible tragedy, due at least in part to the lack of a secondary egress route. How do building codes require that but marine codes (apparently) do not?

Brad Waybright

It's all okay as long as it's okay.

Boat was 38 years old (built 1981)

This view shows how bad it must have been.

Boats always seem to lag behind shore based safety requirements.



Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

Good find. I'm sure the vessel had current certifications, but the code you list is unambiguous, and it can't be grandfathered because the link you refer indicates that code dates from 1972 (and prior).
That drawing from John does show 2 staircases leading up but I wouldn't consider that separate egress as they are right next to one another. Even if they were not, they lead from/to the same area which I would consider to not meat the spirit of the code.
If this boat was somehow employed in commercial enterprise without all necessary certifications then somebody will probably end up in jail if they don't leave the country first.

Brad Waybright

It's all okay as long as it's okay.

Tragic.

I'm surprised that you didn't have to open your bottled air supply just to get enough air to sleep at night. That's tighter than a cayote in a prairie dog hole. We must stay aware of our surroundings. Don't let yourself go into these kinds of places no matter how safe someone tries to tell you that it is.

I've been on a similar eighty foot fishing boat like this on over-nighters to Mexico. I liked the berths below for their "coziness" on the rocking boat. The sleep can be deep, with no pun intended. On our boat, there were two stair exits, and like this boat, they were side by side. The crew sleeps topside out of courtesy to the guests, who get the 'good' sleeping quarters below (ever spent the night out to sea in the rain?). Having worked with buildings, I noticed the bad egress compared to buildings.
The sunken boat and the one we went fishing on are common here. Most meet their yearly Coast Guard inspections are as straight up as required. I suppose boat regulations will address this soon.

I always try to tell my friends and kids, "Do not rely on others for your safety. Look at the places you go for fire hazards and egress paths. If they're sketchy leave."

What a senseless disaster. The crew only noticed the fire upon hearing popping and cracking noises of a full on advanced fire.
I suspect the victims were already incapacitated before the first pop or crackle.

Great smoke detectors. NOT!
The fire started in the galley. Great commercial automatic fire suppression. NOT!

I hope the company and its assets are erased.

Keith Cress
kcress -

That’s so disturbing. Worst nightmare stuff.

Regarding two means of escape - does it have to be of a different type? Eg side hatches to jump into the water? I’ve seen a few boats catch fire and often the whole top is on fire. Another stair straight up wouldn’t help much.

The diagram shows two stairways up, but it looks like they are going into different compartments below.
You can always put another door in a house, but you don't have to worry about your house sinking because you put too many doors in it, either.
I would be curious as to exactly what happened, seems it would have had to flash up very suddenly to catch them all like that.

JStephen; Fiberglass takes off with alarming speed. -Shocking speed- really, and intense IR production. The IR starts any close FG smoking and the smoke is flammable which greatly speeds propagation. The smoke is exceptionally bad to breath. As FG burns it spits high energy burning blobs.

FG burns like a building full of chemists sat around and optimized something to be the worst-of-the-worst.

Check this video at minute 3:25 Cabin Cruiser

Here's a drone video of a boat similar to the one in this catastrophe.
Drone movie of large FG boat fire

FG boat fires are so bad they quickly involve all the boats around them.
Example 17 boats caught in a single event






Keith Cress
kcress -

In my youth I was a keen diver in Scotland the dive boats all tended to be fishing boat conversions. The converted bed spaces in the hold always had two exits one forward and one aft. The crew areas were only one entrance and the hatch was the other means of escape.


The purpose designed boats were the worst cabins when we dived in hot places. They tended to be one normal entrance and the roof hatches as the other escape method maybe one of them had a ladder.


The purpose built dive boats also had aircon and hydralics systems for the ramp lift to take the divers in and out the water. Electrics were best described as dodgy. Being in a university diving club with a quiet a few other baby mech engs it wasn't uncommon for us to have to fix the boat.

I always had my own CO and smoke alarm with me. And the CO triggered 3-4 times and it was always the hot water heater usually because someone had stuffed newspaper in a draught source. Once extracted everything fine apart from the girls moaning they had a cold arse while showering. I have no doubts that the next charter the newspaper would be put back in.

The air quality levels in that cabin must have been awful to start with. And I suspect most people in it would have never woken up when the fire started.

The leading concept is the fire started in the galley above the passengers, cutting off the ability of the crew to reach them. I suppose the next question is if there are alarms linked to smoke detectors and if those links could have been burned though before it was enough to wake the sleeping passengers and crew.

itsmoked - Fiberglass is certainly the most flammable, but after reading "Things I won't work with" I'm sure chemists could do much, much worse. There's not even any fluorine involved.

Wouldn't surprise me if it was the case, that would be where the water heater and gas bottles were.

If they had alarms at all they will have been battery ones and more than likely they will have had the batterys pulled.

Although that utility closet looks extremely suspect to me.

Location of a hatch:



Source:

Location of smoke detector. Emergency instructions?

There's a rumor going around that the fire may have been caused by an improvised cell phone charging station.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

jrs_87

Nice find, the picture of the escape hatch. So well marked and un-obscured.

Also see. Guess a second stairway was impracticable, since it would reduce bunk space.

OC Register had a clean graphic of the boat. The escape hatch doesn't look particularly accessible, even in the best of circumstances.



TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list

OHG that looks like such a deathtrap... I really can't believe it. Am I seeing that you have to climb the stairs AND THEN traverse the entire second floor to an exit?

After this disaster it would seem to me that you simply cannot have vertical fire exits. That deadly choking pitch black super-heated smoke is going to go up from its source rendering upward escapes completely useless. One person trips, no one else behind them will see the light of day. I think they should have mid wall sleeping birth side exits. They can be watertight with a spin bar, not needed or used for anything but fire escapes. Sinking egress would be up the stairs and out ceiling hatches but not fire exits.

My little town lost high school students and the dive charter leader.

Keith Cress
kcress -

I thought about exits when aboard the similar fishing boat, and also thought about other boats that were broadsided by an unexpected wave and rolled, then went down.
In Alaska, on some fishing boats, they sleep on deck wearing their survival gear.