I am looking for an in line 12 volt electric diesel fuel transfer pump that will maintain 14 psi and deliver 80 to 100 gal per hour.I have tried many vane pumps and found them to be noisy and unreliable.I would like to try a gear pump but am unable to find one within the specs that are required for this application. Any ideas?
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Diesel Fuel Transfer Pump Needed
- Thread starter mike2000
- Start date
A good place to start might be Stanadyne Automotive, at: -
They may have what you want.
PJGD
They may have what you want.
PJGD
- Thread starter
- #3
We have tried stanayne 100 series pump and filter combo wih a 30 micron filter that is currently being tested. this combo seems to flow 40 gal/hour which is lower than our needs for fuel flow and pressure.
I have contacted them for more info on other products that may help us and am waiting for a reply.It is unfortunate the web site does not give much info on the products they sell and the local dealer knows little(give me a part# attitude if you know what i mean)
thank you for your input
I have contacted them for more info on other products that may help us and am waiting for a reply.It is unfortunate the web site does not give much info on the products they sell and the local dealer knows little(give me a part# attitude if you know what i mean)
thank you for your input
HydrasportKDA
Automotive
Mike,
That is alot of fuel for a diesel engine? Can you tell us what the engine application is?
The stanadyne fuel managers are a nice package but probably don't supply enough fuel.
You probably need to purchase a Holley Blue pump or some other high-performance pump to maintain that much fuel supply.
If long-term life isn't an issue those might work. The motor brush/commutator probably won't live infinitely due to the diesel fuel.
That is alot of fuel for a diesel engine? Can you tell us what the engine application is?
The stanadyne fuel managers are a nice package but probably don't supply enough fuel.
You probably need to purchase a Holley Blue pump or some other high-performance pump to maintain that much fuel supply.
If long-term life isn't an issue those might work. The motor brush/commutator probably won't live infinitely due to the diesel fuel.
- Thread starter
- #5
I am installing this pump on my 24 valve cummins pickup truck making close to 500hp. the truck needs high volume to keep the injector pump cool .The holley blue pump worked fine but it was extremely noisy.(louder than the 4" exhaust and the engine -with the pump in the back of the truck near the fuel tank)The carter pump worked for a short perod of time before the bushings gave out.I feel that a gear pump is the way to go but am unable to find one to try.
thank you for your reply
thank you for your reply
HydrasportKDA
Automotive
I wondered if it was an ISB engine. Those VP44's use more fuel than the engine does.
A pump that you are looking for can be bought in the form of a 2" roller vane pump. Most fuel pump manufacturers make a pump like this. Bosch originally come out with this pump but they are usually pricey. If you have a NAPA nearby they might be able to help you out. Might try some Ford applications.
Can't guarantee it won't draw quite a bit more current or that it won't be just as loud.
Your flow rate will probably eliminate any opportunities for a gear (gerotor) style fuel pump. It would have to be a thick pumping section to get that much flow rate or the motor would have to really wind up.
Good luck.
A pump that you are looking for can be bought in the form of a 2" roller vane pump. Most fuel pump manufacturers make a pump like this. Bosch originally come out with this pump but they are usually pricey. If you have a NAPA nearby they might be able to help you out. Might try some Ford applications.
Can't guarantee it won't draw quite a bit more current or that it won't be just as loud.
Your flow rate will probably eliminate any opportunities for a gear (gerotor) style fuel pump. It would have to be a thick pumping section to get that much flow rate or the motor would have to really wind up.
Good luck.
Hydrasport is quite correct in the 'go to Ford' advice.
There is a recent (last 3-4 years) US Ford truck which uses the Bosch EKP3D fuel pump, and the European Mondeo diesel of about 2000-2001 uses it as well.
The EKP3D looks much like any other Bosch gasoline EFI pump. Body diameter is 52mm (~2"
, but the brushes were specifically developed for diesel fuel use. Ordinary EKP3 pumps have brushes for gasoline resistance only. Some gas EFI pumps have brushes that will only last a few hundred hours when run in some diesel fuels, the EKP3d will do better than 3000.
As for flow, I think I am right in saying that the EKP3D flows about 250 litre/hour at about 1 bar. Thats about 74 US gph, I think.
I agree with Hydrasport about the fuel use rates - if you are using a Bosch VP44 then a lot of fuel is needed to keep them cool. I was involved in a VP44 application that had FIP inlet temperatures of up to 90°C at 38°C ambients, this was some 20C° over what Bosch wanted to limit the temp to. Loads of fuel flow necessary to get the heat away.
There is a recent (last 3-4 years) US Ford truck which uses the Bosch EKP3D fuel pump, and the European Mondeo diesel of about 2000-2001 uses it as well.
The EKP3D looks much like any other Bosch gasoline EFI pump. Body diameter is 52mm (~2"
, but the brushes were specifically developed for diesel fuel use. Ordinary EKP3 pumps have brushes for gasoline resistance only. Some gas EFI pumps have brushes that will only last a few hundred hours when run in some diesel fuels, the EKP3d will do better than 3000.As for flow, I think I am right in saying that the EKP3D flows about 250 litre/hour at about 1 bar. Thats about 74 US gph, I think.
I agree with Hydrasport about the fuel use rates - if you are using a Bosch VP44 then a lot of fuel is needed to keep them cool. I was involved in a VP44 application that had FIP inlet temperatures of up to 90°C at 38°C ambients, this was some 20C° over what Bosch wanted to limit the temp to. Loads of fuel flow necessary to get the heat away.
- Thread starter
- #8
HydrasportKDA
Automotive
Mike,
What you will probably have to do (with some development work) is develop your own regulation circuit (adjustable pressure regulator) and recirculate the fuel around the pump. That's the same system the OE pump uses. Issue arise when you have idle conditions and you are circulating the same fuel (being heated by the pump). Typically it doesn't extend fuel pump life. Good news is that the regulator probably holds up better than the valve in the OE pump. Bad news is that with the higher flow pump, idle conditions mean you circulate the same fuel more often and heat it up that much more. Want to return the fuel to the tank? If you can get the "extra" fuel back to the tank (preferrable into the module for hot fuel handling) that would extend life considerably without hindering system performance.
The unique thing here is that your VP44 will ALWAYS see your desired pressure PROVIDED that the system doesn't demand more fuel than the pump will deliver at your pressure. At this point, you don't have enough pump. With the flow rates this 2" pump will deliver, I would estimate that number to be beyond 80gph, which is alot of fuel.
So, why not set it for something less, like 8psi? The VP44 doesn't care and that means your "max fuel needed" number goes up a little more before you have exceed the pumps ability.
Sorry so long.
What you will probably have to do (with some development work) is develop your own regulation circuit (adjustable pressure regulator) and recirculate the fuel around the pump. That's the same system the OE pump uses. Issue arise when you have idle conditions and you are circulating the same fuel (being heated by the pump). Typically it doesn't extend fuel pump life. Good news is that the regulator probably holds up better than the valve in the OE pump. Bad news is that with the higher flow pump, idle conditions mean you circulate the same fuel more often and heat it up that much more. Want to return the fuel to the tank? If you can get the "extra" fuel back to the tank (preferrable into the module for hot fuel handling) that would extend life considerably without hindering system performance.
The unique thing here is that your VP44 will ALWAYS see your desired pressure PROVIDED that the system doesn't demand more fuel than the pump will deliver at your pressure. At this point, you don't have enough pump. With the flow rates this 2" pump will deliver, I would estimate that number to be beyond 80gph, which is alot of fuel.
So, why not set it for something less, like 8psi? The VP44 doesn't care and that means your "max fuel needed" number goes up a little more before you have exceed the pumps ability.
Sorry so long.
In the European systems that I was involved with, the 'low pressure' fuel system was regulated by a Bosch reg that was about 1 - 1.2 bar.
Fuel was circulated at this pressure up to the VP44 inj pump and then back to the tank via a fairly basic fuel cooler (rather like the simpler oil and trans fluid coolers) which took a little energy out of the fuel.
That way, the fuel tank was used as a heat sink for the energy put in by the VP44.
The recirculation from the regulator also went back into the tank and was not put straight back to the pump inlet - again to use the tank and its contents as a heat sink.
Of course, the tank ultimately heats up as fuel is depleted, but piping the system up this way certainly delayed the rise of temperature at the VP44 injection pump to become OK for passenger vehicles. Heavy duty stuff might be another matter.
We also had a thermostatic valve (Bosch again) on the return from the VP44. This diverted fuel back into the VP44 inlet, via the fuel filter, until the fuel temp got up to about 25-30ºC. This heats the filter in cold conditions. Once the temp was reached the fuel went to the cooler, tank, etc.
The pump is certainly capable of very high pressures, it is the same basic roller cell design as found in all EKP3 Bosch pumps. In some versions it will easily produce up to 7 bar. This depends on the armature used and the internal pressure relief valve, which should really not be used as a pressure regulator as it is important to keep fuel flowing through the pump to cool and lubricate it.
Fuel was circulated at this pressure up to the VP44 inj pump and then back to the tank via a fairly basic fuel cooler (rather like the simpler oil and trans fluid coolers) which took a little energy out of the fuel.
That way, the fuel tank was used as a heat sink for the energy put in by the VP44.
The recirculation from the regulator also went back into the tank and was not put straight back to the pump inlet - again to use the tank and its contents as a heat sink.
Of course, the tank ultimately heats up as fuel is depleted, but piping the system up this way certainly delayed the rise of temperature at the VP44 injection pump to become OK for passenger vehicles. Heavy duty stuff might be another matter.
We also had a thermostatic valve (Bosch again) on the return from the VP44. This diverted fuel back into the VP44 inlet, via the fuel filter, until the fuel temp got up to about 25-30ºC. This heats the filter in cold conditions. Once the temp was reached the fuel went to the cooler, tank, etc.
The pump is certainly capable of very high pressures, it is the same basic roller cell design as found in all EKP3 Bosch pumps. In some versions it will easily produce up to 7 bar. This depends on the armature used and the internal pressure relief valve, which should really not be used as a pressure regulator as it is important to keep fuel flowing through the pump to cool and lubricate it.
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