Walking Columns - How Much is Too Much 8

[KootK]

I'm polling the gang here to get a sense of everyone's opinion regarding the business of seriously walking columns as shown below. The project is a high rise building in a high seismic region. I get the whole walking column concept but feel that, at some point, there should be a rational limit. Some potential seismic consequences of this:

- you've got a significant, permanent lateral load on on the building that will ratchet under seismic yielding.

- you've got a significant, permanent torsion acting on your core that will ratchet under seismic yielding. I'm not sure that anybody even really knows how cores respond to torsion when they're already yielded as plastic hinges.

- vertical seismic accelerations are going to exacerbate the above concerns.

- the whole thing's got an inverted pendulum character to it.

Yeah, we've got irregularity penalties, ETABS, OpenSEES, PBD, and the rest... To me though, this still seems like hubris even with all of the fancy tools in hand. I'd like to hear how others feel about this kind of thing. Would you really want your kids on the 30th floor of this things start shaking?

I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.

 

[WinelandV]

DETstru,

Are you concerned that the buildings are going to mate in the wild?

Apologies to KootK for totally derailing the thread...

 

[EZBuilding]

The last one is located at the Hard Rock Casino in Broward County, Florida. No seismic concerns there.

Here are some other cool pictures of the project:
Link

I wonder if the horizontal component of the column forces are removed - or added - from the p.t. slab pre-compression during design.

 

[Trenno]

I want to start a new thread that is just about structures that really push the envelope. But maybe the mods will delete it because it's not really a question thread...

I stumbled across this little gem in Warsaw, Poland on the weekend. Wonder what K Factor they adopted...

 

[molibden]

Do they have earthquakes?

 

[RickyTickyTavi]

I cant imagine thats taking all the axial load of 20 floors, perhaps theyre relying on transferring loads back to the main part of the structure.

 

[JLNJ]

Must have used an HP calculator for that one.

 

[sticksandtriangles]

Man... takes a certain bravado that I do not have to design that building Trenno...

 

[KootK]

Keeps things nice and simple for the terrorists.

I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.

 

[civeng80]

Have they also got apartments in the column ?

 

[Agent666]

You could almost get a lift in there?

 

[Tommy385]

Some structural info about that hotel in Warsaw.
Mostly in german

http://www.porr.hu/ptu/hungary/german/media/141_31-40.pdf

 

[KootK]

Tommy's paper looks informative. Anybody know enough German to help us parse out any interesting bits? I'd be curious to know if the building has been designed with specific robustness in mind. The top floor and mid-height transfer level both look as though they could harbor pretty substantial structure. And the core is not interrupted by the building cut. Perhaps the thing could survive the loss of the mega-column.

I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.

 

[Agent666]

Translated via an online tool

https://www.onlinedoctranslator.com/

 

[BAretired]

That translator is pretty impressive.

BA

 

[Tommy385]

Written by designer:
....This 5-star hotels distinct architectural style with its outstanding open space on the lower levels is based on building constraints that stipulated that the residential units located behind the hotel had to receive a certain minimum of sunlight!!!. This task’s solution turned out one highly specific challenge for our engineers and, at the same time, contributed to the structure’s appeal....

 

[KootK]

Yeah, the translator worked astonishingly well. For what it's worth, the guitar thing is DiSimone's handiwork. Clip below is from their website.

I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.

 

[Eagleee]

Have any of you guys been to Rotterdam? The city is packed with this type of buildings. Someone said the architects being all high was the reason . You rarely see a building without something being cantilevered.

KootK, is there any way in which I can get a short message to you?

 

[hokie66]

I've never been to Rotterdam, but have been to several Dutch cities which have many leaning buildings, not by design. Perhaps the architects in Rotterdam just decided to emphasize that their buildings were intentionally leaning.

 

[KootK]

KootK, is there any way in which I can get a short message to you?

There is if you can sort out a little riddle. Just click on my handle to take you to my member profile and see what you can make of the first line.

 

[KootK]

KootK, is there any way in which I can get a short message to you?

Did you give up? I was looking forward to hearing from you.