USES Energy Reduction Device 3

[coon77]

Looking for any one who has specified or implemented a POM Energy Device USES. We have client's interested in these devices however the company has difficulty technically suporting benifits of their device. Our concern is that this could be similiar to other "Snake Oil" devices. Any comments on success and utility cost savings would be greatly appreciated.
Website:

http://www.pomenergyconcepts.com/

 

[jraef]

Marketing fluff.
Here are their clams:

"USES": A passive, magnetically controlled electrical device, patented in 1992 that continuously and automatically provides the following benefits to any electrical system:
? Power Factor correction to nearly unity at all load conditions

--Not terribly difficult to improve PF, but "nearly unity" is ambiguous. Most utilities stop assessing penalties at .95 and besides, how can a single point device correct poor power factor if you have no idea what it is to start with?

? Protection from internal & external surges, spikes, harmonics, transients, momentary low voltages and lightning (Absorbs and distributes these back into the electrical system as reusable power)

---Power quality; good idea, difficult to quantify "savings" however. Let's call it "avoided costs on potential dangers" and move on.

? Balance of the incoming power which both raises and more evenly balances the voltage across the phases (Supplying "Computer Quality Power" allows motors to run cooler and more efficiently at all load levels-including VSD’s)

---Mixed bag here. Yes, balanced voltage reduces waste in motors, but they are assuming you have an imbalance worth fixing aren't they? And there are other ways to do it without buying more hardware. Still, not a bad notion, just a little over blown in most situations. And will it improve the efficiency of a VFD? No, but neither does it hurt.

? Reduction of starting/inrush current for motors

---BS. A reactor can be sed in a motor starter arrangement to reduce starting current, but this reactor is not even in the motor circuit!

? Reduction of electrical repairs including motor rewinds and contactor replacement

---Again, difficult to quantify as an amount of money saved because it assumes you have problems to start with, and most of the problems could be solved without this miracle device.

? Extension of the life of motors and fluorescent lights.

---More of the same ambiguous vague marketing claptrap.

? 8-12% reduction of electricity (Proposed savings and payback are guaranteed-usually less than 3 years)

---Oh oh, stepped over the line into pure BS here. You can only save energy that is wasted. If you have wasted energy, you can usually solve that issue by looking specifically at the waste. No "magic box" is going to suddenly change the laws of physics and "guarantee" that your energy input will go down by any amount.

Bottom line, it's kind of like vitamins; no harm if not done to excess, but no tangible proof that it does any good either.


"If I had eight hours to chop down a tree, I'd spend six sharpening my axe." -- Abraham Lincoln
For the best use of Eng-Tips, please click here -> faq731-376

 

[ScottyUK]

Jeff,

Did you notice the 'improvement' brought about by drawing a trapezoidal current instead of an evil sinewave and all the associated ill effects of sinusoidal waveforms? And the crayon drawing to demonstrate this effect? Here's 5.6MB of pseudo-science - it's one the fourth page.

Total, utter, steaming crap. My ISP must be cursing having to give bandwidth to this drivel.


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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!

 

[jraef]

Don't hold back Scotty...


"If I had eight hours to chop down a tree, I'd spend six sharpening my axe." -- Abraham Lincoln
For the best use of Eng-Tips, please click here -> faq731-376

 

[DRWeig]

A star for Scotty!

Thieves, they are.

I've been fighting this battle in the US with another company all year long.

Total hogwash -- the marketers should be arrested and forced to wire themselves to their magical box and flip the switch a few times each day until they repent.

Good on ya,

Goober Dave

 

[LionelHutz]

They claim it's a specially wound choke.

A choke will improve power factor?

A choke will "attract electrical waste and distortion recycling these as useful energy"?

A choke will balance the voltages?

Sounds like complete BS to me.

If you want a simpler way to try for some energy savings then bump your transformer tap to the -10% tap and run with a little less voltage. This is just as likely to help as anything - of course it could hurt too.

 

[ScottyUK]

Guys,

I'm embarrassed to receive stars for this. It just frustrates me that people are allowed to dress up well-understood technology in ways which are designed to mislead and confuse people who don't have the time or the knowledge to realise that they are being misled by snake-oil salesmen.

And I'm actually waiting for Gunnar's reaction when he reads this because he usually has some quite forthright opinions about this kind of thing...


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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!

 

[jraef]

To be fair, it's probably more than just a choke. Someone else who's name escapes me has a similar product on the market and their results have been verified from some of the stuff shared on this and other sites I have seen (anyone else remember the manufacturer?). That other one does balance the voltages and it does mitigate spikes and surges, so as a power quality device it has a modicum of merit.

I was assuming this new one is, at best, a knock-off of that other technology, it wasn't rocket science as I recall. The problem is, the other outfit wasn't making wild claims of energy savings, to their credit. This one did, which stepped too far over the line IMHO.


"If I had eight hours to chop down a tree, I'd spend six sharpening my axe." -- Abraham Lincoln
For the best use of Eng-Tips, please click here -> faq731-376

 

[LionelHutz]

Here is another good quote.

"we save our customers money by reducing energy costs."

This device will somehow reduce the price you pay for electricity? I think they are trying to claim it will reduce the energy used.

I guess the point should be made that you won't end up with the best result if you just slap on a universal fix-it-all device. This is even true when you consider that these wonderful devices typically come with a very healthy price premium and also can't fix every problem you could have.

Another point should be made that a universal passive device can not possibly correct any and every problem in your power system.

To get the best results, you need to know what the problems are and then install equipment which will correct those problems.

 

[stevenal]

It's all in the way the chokes are wound, you see:

"It has been found that the unique arrangement of chokes 28 and 30 provide substantial savings in power usage, particularly for inductive loads in industrial applications. Such loads include heavy motors and fluorescent lamps. Savings on the order of 10-25% have been measured. It is believed that the savings result from an improvement in power factor provided by chokes 28 and 30. It is also believed that the chokes balance the loads carried by power lines 12 and 14, providing efficiencies in operation. Other mechanisms may also contribute to the energy savings noted.

The measured reduction in energy usage is due, at least in part, to the winding of choke 28 around second path 48 and the winding of choke 30 around first path 36. When this "complementary winding" technique is not used, the energy savings are substantially reduced. It has also been found that ferromagnetic core 26 is not required to achieve the energy savings. The complementary winding technique alone lowers kilowatt hours (KWH), energy usage, and demand rate. Testing has established that energy savings occur even with a choke comprising one winding, as long as the wire from the choke loops back through the winding. Chokes having coils of six windings each have been found to provide maximum efficiency, as the measured reduction in energy savings levels off after six turns."

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=5105327&OS=5105327&RS=5105327

 

[ScottyUK]

Of course. Silly me, I must have overlooked the obvious interaction of the chokes and paths. I withdraw my earlier comments.

Do these people write equipment reviews for the high-end audio market?


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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!

 

[LionelHutz]

Probably true Scotty.

Honestly, if you read their bs claims and believe ewverything you are reading to be true then you're not the one who should be making the decision on purchasing. If the people who buy into this crap aren't smart enough to seek out or believe an expert opinion then they aren't worth trying to help.

To be fair, some of the things they claim could be true but I don't believe anyone who shows me a "black box" and tells me how wonderful it is. If it really works then they should be able to provide technical details on how it works. In the end, if it really works as claimed then someone will figure out how to clone it. But that shouldn't really matter because if this device is so good then everyone with electricity should want to buy one meaning the market is huge. Using protection as your excuse for hiding how something works is no excuse.

I ran into another company who was touting the same things. I asked for some details and they sent me a messed up photo copied paper report which more or less took many pages to describe how a capacitor would improve the power factor. Their proposal to the company who was interested was for something like $80k but they wouldn't give any details on what they were providing. Basically, "pay us $80k and we'll provide you a number of enclosures to install which will fix all your problems".

One of their salesmen told the story of how they had shown the current was reduced in another plant and how the plant supervisor or owner or general manager or whoever was so happy to see this reduction - yup that guy would be one of those people who shouldn't have been making the purchasing decision for this product. I have no idea what the final decision was and really don't care. I told them my opinion and beyond that it didn't affect me.

 

[ghostbuster7]

Many of these companies are claiming a "KW" reduction as well as a reduction in the negative sequence harmonic rotation vectors.The negative vectors produce heat in the motors.
When the utility updated their metering all these savings disappeared.