US Electrical Grid Visualization 2

[jraef]

I just thought this was worth sharing with my fellow information junkies...

http://www.npr.org/news/graphics/2009/apr/electric-grid/

"If I had eight hours to chop down a tree, I'd spend six sharpening my axe." -- Abraham Lincoln
For the best use of Eng-Tips, please click here -> faq731-376

 

[Zogzog]

I love that link, found the same place I think you did and wasted 1/2 of friday playing around on it.

 

[alehman]

Very interesting. However it looks like the wind map is out of date.

Alan
----
"It’s always fun to do the impossible." - Walt Disney

 

[caporter]

1000KV DC transmission lines? I thought Edison lost that battle and everything was AC.

 

[cranky108]

Edison did lose. It has, however, been discovered that for very long distances DC has fewer losses.

 

[eyec]

yes, but instead of running the HVDC lines to the nearest grid they want to run dedicated lines from the western states all the way to Chicago and other points that want to pay the premium for "Green Energy".

good idea, bad use of it in my book.

Steven C
Senior Member
ThirdPartyInspections.com

 

[itsmoked]

I don't get it.. Why are there a bunch of AC-DC-AC links that appear to cover only a few miles? Is that to reduce the distributed/wavelength issues?

Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[davidbeach]

Three North American systems that are not synchronized. Back to back AC-DC-AC stations are built on the boundaries to allow power flow since they can't be connected AC to AC.

 

[jraef]

Keith, did you hold your mouse pointer over the little question mark icon?


"If I had eight hours to chop down a tree, I'd spend six sharpening my axe." -- Abraham Lincoln
For the best use of Eng-Tips, please click here -> faq731-376

 

[itsmoked]

Um ah yeah yeah I did...

Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[cranky108]

The dedicated lines are to avoid congestion in the existing network, so cheeper and green power can be delivered to people who don't want power plants or wind farms.

Strange that the spaces with the most energy have the fewest people.

 

[alehman]

Right. It's more a matter of where the wind blows vs. where the people are. The Southern Power Pool is entertaining proposals to build a new 765kV line west to east across the state of Kansas. We have lots of wind power in west, but most of the people live in the east. And the higher the voltage, the cheaper the cost per MW of capacity.

In Kansas City for example, Sprint buys 75% of the energy for their HQ campus from the Spearville wind farm near Dodge City. They no doubt pay a premium.

For several years governor Sibelius rejected proposed new coal power plants and said we should build more wind farms instead. We're building wind farms, but people like to have their light and A/C even when the wind doesn't blow. So now we're going to build a coal plant also.

Alan
----
"It’s always fun to do the impossible." - Walt Disney

 

[cranky108]

And what they found out from the Spearville widn farm is there is a shortage of capacity. The grids were built to deliver power to the customers there, but being there are few people there the grids don't have that much capacity.

What is Spearville Kansas, less that 10,000 people, and Dodge city is what 25,000 people.

And the grid there is the Eastern grid, not the Southern grid.

Now there is no governor Sibelius, so the people in Kansas can get on with what the people in Eastern Kansas want.

 

[alehman]

Sorry, meant to say Southwest Power Pool. Yes, eastern grid.

Several Kansas wind farms are having issues with transmission capacity shortages. Hence the plan for the new line.

Alan
----
"It’s always fun to do the impossible." - Walt Disney

 

[cranky108]

Why are we building 765kv lines to remote wind farms?
Who pays the cost of these lines?
How many other Firm power plants will these wind farms shut down?
And why, with all these wind farms, is the local G&T wanting to build a new coal plant?

The reality should irritate you.

 

[EEJaime]

Thank You jreaf, great link!

 

[alehman]

Cranky,
This is a complicated question. I do find it irritating on one level - that being my monthly bill. My utility just asked for a 17% rate increase to build a new coal plant (in Missouri). And if I want to partake in the 'renewable energy' option from my utility, I pay even more for the privilege. They haven't worked out the cost allocation for the proposed new line, but you can be I'll end up buying my share of it whether I elect the 'renewable energy' rate option or not.

But... I feel the greenhouse gas problem is real and that we need to be doing something about it. The best solution we have now IMO is nuclear. Other technologies such as clean coal, CO2 sequestration are also dispatchable, but deployment is probably quite some time in the future. Wind provides energy (CO2 reduction), but little dispatchable capacity.

Should we be investing in nuclear, clean-coal or wind, or some combination? For now, all are expensive. I don't know.

Alan
----
"It’s always fun to do the impossible." - Walt Disney

 

[rmw]

While the map is pie in the sky (not built yet may never be) there are existing DC ties 2 or 3, somehow I think it is 3, into the ERCOT grid. They obviously aren't 1000KV though.

rmw

 

[cranky108]

The problem is some NIMBY dosen't want to look at the wind farms, so they push them to the flyover states, and other out lying areas.

 

[argentox]

I think the group may also enjoy this visualization of losses... slightly outdated but the current numbers are not far from this.


Eric W. Schreiber, BSc(EE), MBA

http://www.ericwschreiber.com

http://www.linkedin.com/in/eschreiber