UL Approval on LED lighting units

[Boyyo]

Hello All,

Im a Brit' looking for some information on the requirements for approvals for products within the US.

Would it be permitted to ship units containing low voltage (12-24v)PCBs with LEDs mounted onto them, but without a PSU and leave the Customer to source a UL approved product locally?

Or does this not comply with UL etc?

Any advice is more than welcome!

 

[mcgyvr]

Typically if a product is incomplete and cannot function on it's own it can only be UL recognized and not a UL listed product.

 

[Boyyo]

Hello mcgyvr..!!

Thanks for the prompt reply.

We are looking to ship, at short notice, some sample lighting to a potential customer in the US. We have CE approval but not UL etc..

The Customer is happy to either supply his own supply, through existing 12 / 24v supply from a security system etc or a dedicated UL approved PSU (24 / 12v) for each lighting unit.

So we would be shipping in an enclosure with CE certification, containing LED boards and a connector for him to add his own supply. I am not certain what you mean by UL recognised or UL listed....we would want to ship 'as is' without doing anything else!!

 

[mcgyvr]

From what I heard the CE mark is self certified (which means nothing in my book as anyone can slap that on their product without indepentant agency verification.)

UL listed simply means the product is complete and safe and can function on its own and has no conditions of acceptability added to it.
Recognized typically means the product has been tested in accordancy to a standard however it may be incomplete in construction (like without its PSU) or performance.

If your customer requires UL listed lighting then without your product being listed you do not meet their requirements. But I am not familiar with your product or the standards it would be tested to so it is posible that your product could be listed without its PSU. But regardless if you have not submitted that product your are neither listed nor recognized.

 

[dpc]

It's not illegal to ship a sample. It would not even be illegal to sell it. UL is a private "non-profit" outfit and has no enforcement powers. The problem comes when installed in end-use location and local inspector red-tags it because it is not UL-labeled. Also, very few distributors or retailers would carry something without UL label, where applicable.

 

[Boyyo]

Hello,

Thanks for the feedback so far.

Just a note, CE can be on a 'self-certification' basis but you'd bee foolish to do so without having a full and comprehensive Tech File etc...and having had EMC tests done etc. Therefore most, including us choose to have an independent test house audit the process so that we carry CE certification with confidence.

So, I can ship some samples in to the Customer however he may encounter difficulties with local building control etc if they require UL to be present on the product?

If so, does this mean that every single component needs to be UL approved / recognised?.....could I send him the light in Kit form for him to assemble and then use a UL certified PSU to power it?...on the basis that UL is only interested in Electrical safety? and the components are operation at mA level and 12 volts?

Or, do I have to send the units to a 'test house' on a one off basis to get someone to OK them as UL recognised...how much would that cost approx?...time?

 

[dpc]

Boyyo,

We actually have UL forum on this site. I'd suggest posting a more specific question on the UL certification process there. I can tell you that it will take years off your life and cost 10x what you'd expect.

 

[mcgyvr]

Based on my experiences with them (too many BS issues to list) I would highly suggest NOT using UL to get your UL testing completed. There are many other companies that can test to UL specifications. Depending on where you plan to sell your product you might be better to get the testing done to the UL/CSA/IEC/EN,etc.. (This typically only costs a few dollars more yes...literally a few dollars) Also ask about CB scheme

I would highly suggest you contact testing companies now and have them come in and look at your products and discuss your needs with them. Most will send a sales guy by who can answer many of your questions without sending a bill.

 

[itsmoked]

Bryyo; Most lighting in the USA needs to "listed". But if it is just some guy using it for his house it is up to him as to whether he needs it "listed".

If it is being put into a building by an architect or builder they would be foolish to put it in without it being listed.

If it is going into a commercial location it should really be listed. Or, a lot of embarrassment shows up when the fire inspector red-tags over your light.

I say "listed" because it certainly doesn't have to be UL listed, as that is a monopolistic company, that grossly over charges for everything. There are other listing agencies around. ETL is much better to work with. They actually are out to provide a service at a reasonable cost and in reasonable time.

Back to your case. If the customer you are shipping to is assembling your system with some other stuff then they would need to get listing for that commercial application. They would have a horrible(expensive) time getting the 'system' listed if your component hasn't already been "recognized" as mcgyvr and dpc have explained.

Certainly someone who just wants to check out your product would not need listing to do that.

Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[MacGyverS2000]

A second thumbs up for ETL...

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[StephenVB]

I have talked to ETL and they said they really didn't concern themselves with voltages lower than 50v, unless there was a battery, apparently due to those burning laptops. If your device is going in an electrical cabinet that has to be tested and so you may not need individual testing. I made a 120 VAC control card that was put in a standard electrical enclosure in a large vending machine. The company that made the machines had a listed panel shop. They tested the boxes and affixed approval stickers. They had no problems selling internationally.