The Entitlement Generation 18

[controlnovice]

I'm seeing this a lot in our engineering co-op students.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/the_entitlement_generation

I'm trying to figure out when this generation started? I'm at the very tail end of GenX, but certainly don't feel entitled. Born '67.

 

[moltenmetal]

The old always label the young as lazy. This is supposed to be news?

 

[jmw]

Some important comments in that article though; todays employers have no sense of responsibility to employees and yet still expect/exploit employee loyalty to the company/

It may be time to look at balancing the legal responsibilities of employers to their shareholders (the excuse for everything) with some legal responsibility to employees.

Of course, I have no idea how this can be done but in specific situations there are some gross abuses that might be addressed.

For example, I worked for a company that was part of a group of companies. For many years the aerospace group was in dire trouble and every year our company employees would be told that no pay rises would be forthcoming/minimal or deffered. Progressively many employee benefits was lost through this and, despite the profitability of our company, "restructuring" regularly occurred i.e. redundancies.

Ultimately the aerospace company recovered and was promptly sold off for something like $60million which was disperesed among the shareholders (significant among them the CEO).

The employees of our company didn't even get a letter of acknowledgement.

But, the point is that it is often the younger employees who seem to have a healthier attitude as they proved more willing or able to draw a line and leave. Those who believed the guff or had loyalty to the company, or to their co-workers, were the ultimate losers.

Sure, the attitudes of the young can leave much to be desired but maybe they can teach us something as well.

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[EddyC]

The history of the world is filled with stories of people (mostly at the top) who thought that the world owned them something and that they would ride roughshod over anyone who got in the way. Its hardly a new theme.

 

[Zapster]

The entitlement generation started at the end of WWII with the great society. The worst offenders are the SS (social security) crowd who took there SS withholdings and spent it on entitlement programs (The Great Society). Now they expect the youngster of society to pick up their living expenses, medical expenses, etc. without any needs based criteria. This same crowd is the richest segment of the United States’ population. Not sure how things are in other countries when it comes to attitudes of the youth; but in the United States, the kids are quick to learn from the examples of their elders.

 

[QCE]

I think the article is fairly accurate. Most engineers worked very hard for their degree and feel they deserve a job. They don't want to work in a cubicle and work on boring stuff and be given zero training.

I felt like I could get a good job with a company that cared enough to train me and give me respect and a good wage.

I don't think it is actually that students think they deserve it. I just think that they feel they could get it and go for it.

I ended up taking a job that gave me lots of training in the field I wanted for a little bit lower of a wage then a oil patch job in cubicle with no future for a high wage. Now I make just as much as many of my friends in the oil patch. They just happen to grumble about their jobs a lot more.

 

[Heckler]

In my opinion it's todays corporate CEO that has created the lack of worker loyalty by bowing to the stockholders and not crafting employee retention plans (all to raise the stock price 1/8 of a cent). Engineers are now a commodity bought and sold to the lowest or highest bidder. I see it eaiser for a company to litigate transfered technology (whatever form it takes) from loss of employees to a competiting corporation. The movie Office Space rings so true in todays corporate America


Best Regards,


An apathetic slacker Gen Xer

 

[moltenmetal]

Some of this is simply the younger generation waking up and smelling the cat food. Some of us seasoned pro's can't smell it because our faces are in it day in and day out.

Companies are algorithms which exist to make profit for shareholders. If they have compassion or care about their employees, it's a freak accident which can be corrected by a nose-dive in stock value at some future date, the hiring of a new, evil human resources manager etc.

Being an employee is a bargain: you trade time, effort, creativity and intelligence for money. If the employee gives too little of the required quantities, they get canned. If the employer does not remain profitable despite the employee's best efforts, the employee gets canned. If the employer demands too much in return for the money, the employee moves on- or do they? Or do they foolishly remain behind, thinking that the company really does love them and exist merely to validate their pathetic human existence in some way? Perhaps the younger kids are just savvier to this reality than their parents were, since they watched their parents making bad bargains with their employers- giving too much of themselves for too little money and zero loyalty toward employees.

 

[controlnovice]

Okay...Okay.... enough of the bad corporation, good employee discussion.

When did a job become an entitlement? I worked my butt of in school, but also worked my butt off to get a job. I didn't expect it to be handed to me.

I think there was another thread here somewhere that discussed the lack of knowledge of the new engineering workforce (always going to the caclulator/computer for an answer) that could relate to this discussion.

 

[ScottyUK]

...the hiring of a new, evil human resources manager...

To replace the outgoing evil human resources manager?

I'm another one of the Gen X'rs and company loyalty is something which I hear about from my parents era. In these days of company pension scheme collapses, fat cat executives, corporate thieves like Ken Lay et al: why on earth would I want to pledge my allegiance to people so obviously bereft of moral values?

The younger generation like me - I think I'm still in it, just - don't remember the days where someone could work for their whole career for one employer and retire comfortably on the employer's pension scheme, except in stories from elderly friends and relatives. The young of today expect to have to provide for their own retirement, and that requires cold hard money and some savvy investment. If another employer offers a better deal, then who can blame them for taking it? The big tie to an employer in the UK used to be the pension, where years of accrued service were required to ensure a decent retirement. Those schemes are virtually all gone now, and with them the employers means of buying loyalty.



----------------------------------

If we learn from our mistakes,
I'm getting a great education!

 

[amorrison]

Employees work just hard enough so they won't get fired,
Employers pay just enough so the employees won't quit.

 

[QCE]

amorrison4:

I think you are talking about people that work in gas stations. If any engineer works like that I feel very sorry for them.

 

[moltenmetal]

Actually QCE, many engineers I know work 60+ hours when they're paid to work 40, for no extra compensation or time in lieu, and then expect underlings to do the same out of some warped and misguided notion of "professionalism". For the first five years of my career, "professionalism" wasn't an ideal I aspired to, it was a whip that was used to lash my backside to compell uncompensated overtime from me. If recent grads are rejecting this mindset, good on 'em.

Employment is a contract: hours, creativity, intellect and effort in return for money and other consideration. It's not "good employee, bad corporation" or vice versa- it's "I agree to give you this quantity and quality of A in return for this quantity and quality of B". If you're stupid and give A away freely and don't expect more of B, don't expect me to share your mindset! And don't be surprised if your services are de-valued because they come at no real cost to the organization you work for.

I was lucky- I managed to find an employer who respects the contributions of their employees, realizes that we're their only real asset, and compensates us directly, monetarily, for our contribution toward the profitability of our organization. It's done fairly, in measure to the individual's real contribution rather than merely how many hours of O/T they've clocked- and it's significant- NEVER a token. And it cuts both ways: it's accepted in the light of a lower than average base salary, such that the pain of poor company performance is felt by the employees directly too. Then again, we're private so our shareholders are on-board with this system and understand its value- and it applies to all employees, not just the managers or professional staff. All employees also have some ownership position in the company, further aligning the goals of the organization with those of the employees and vice versa.

But there are thousands of engineers who work significant overtime freely because they derive so much pleasure and validation from their work that they literally expect nothing in return. These people are idiots and they're doing our profession a disservice. Worse still, there are managers who feel this way and who therefore COMPELL uncompensated overtime from their underlings. These persons are actually in violation of our provincial Code of Ethics and should be subject to disciplinary action in my opinion.

No profitable corporation is a worthy recipient of pro-bono engineering "volunteerism" of this sort! Engineers deserve compensation for their effort, no moreso nor any less so than any other employee. If you want validation from volunteerism because your life isn't full enough with family and other non-work pursuits, I can name a list of worthy charities including RedR and Engineers Without Borders who would be only too happy to accept your voluntary efforts for the benefit of those who really need them!

 

[EddyC]

There's plenty of company owners and managers who don't like to see others have happy lives. They are part of the "misery-loves-company" group in our society. My current employer would lay people off on a Friday at 2:30 PM. He would basically say: "No need for you to come in any more". How can anyone possibly have a sense of loyalty to an organization like this? And sad to say, almost every company that I worked with would act in some way like this at some time. Professionalism? Its in the hands of a small group of idealistic employees who want to see the world become a better place. Its certainly not of the hands of most company leaders.

 

[NickelMet]

First of all ... good thread.

Second of all, I worked with a company that I saw the difference in "entitlement" first hand. At that company, there were workers that were as far as the 4th generation to have worked there. There was on one occasion that I got to know the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th generation of one family as they each worked in my shops.

The 2nd generation fellow was a hard worker, even after 35+ years. He didn't take the easy jobs and chastised the younger crowd for not working hard. He had his opinions, but let others speak and seemed to listen and fully communicate with them.

The 3rd generation fellow was not a hard worker. He did his time and left each day. He wasn't willing to 'go the extra mile'. He actually told me the company 'owed him' because of his grandfather and father putting their 'lifeblood' into the company. He constantly verbally abused management, technical types (engineers), and college educated people. He stated his opinions loudly and would try to turn every conversation his way, stating 'if you aren't with me, you're against me'. Very poor worker, in my opinion.

The 4th generation fellow was much like his grandfather. Hard worker. Liked to talk to people and find out new ways to do things better. Told me on more than one occasion to 'not pay attention to the old man' and not take things he said personally. He tended to listen a lot more and do things that would surprise you. He knew he must work and think hard to get ahead and keep the company going. Very good worker.

Of course there are more characteristics I could list, but these are the tops. Sort of follows the topic. Has anybody experienced a similar type of stratification within a company?

~NiM

 

[Heckler]

A

for you EddyC. I've worked for companies that owners/management desperately needed some form of therapy or medication.


Milton Waddams: [talking on the phone] And I said, I don't care if they lay me off either, because I told, I told Bill that if they move my desk one more time, then, then I'm, I'm quitting, I'm going to quit. And, and I told Don too, because they've moved my desk four times already this year, and I used to be over by the window, and I could see the squirrels, and they were merry, but then, they switched from the Swingline to the Boston stapler, but I kept my Swingline stapler because it didn't bind up as much, and I kept the staples for the Swingline stapler and it's not okay because if they take my stapler then I'll set the building on fire...


An apathetic slacker Gen Xer

 

[2dye4]

If employees can afford some latitude with the boss
why should they not have it??

Capitalism and free markets are allways to be enforced
on the other guy.
I mean as soon as employers don't have a blocklong line
outside the fence waiting to work they think there is
a problem.

"If I am winning GOD bless capitalism"
"Otherwise lets pass some new laws"

 

[EddyC]

When I am nearing the end of my stay on planet earth, I'm going to feel much better when I think about the wild parties that I attended, the fun people that I met, the ones that I loved, the cars I owned, the vintage aircraft that I flew on and a whole bunch of other wonderful things. I am not going to ponder about whether I was a hard worker or whether my employer liked me. I am not addicted to my job, it serves to pay my bills and lets me do the things in my free time that I enjoy. I have met plenty of folks that have so much money that they never have to work. I don't think any less of them. Those that work hard usually do because they have to. They then come up with the logic that hard work makes you a better person, in order to give some meaning to their difficult life situation.

 

[NickelMet]

Humor from Dave Berry:

"If you had to identify, in one word, the reason why the human race has not achieved and never will achieve, its full potential, that word would be 'meetings'."

And my favorite, one which agrees with EddyC and one which I try to apply despite the ever changing requirements "of the moment":

"You should not confuse your career with your life."

~NiM

 

[QCE]

I guess I'm lucky enough to have a job that I consider a big part of my life. I enjoy my job. I don't work to live outside of work only. My jobs and outside work activities are both my joys. I'm lucky I work for a company that doesn't take advantage of that.

I know many people that work to afford there outside work hobbies. This is not a bad thing. It is only a really bad thing when your outside work hobby is grumbling about work. I know people that do this.