Surveying By "Others"

[GoldDredger]

I work as a land development PM for a civil/survey company. Most of the time our development contracts include both the initial survey (topo and platting) along with the design portion of the contract.

A recent developer shopped out our survey, but appears to want to go with the civil design. I am a bit concerned about this because for one, our survey price isn't out of the ballpark for this area. In other words, I think the developer has found the bargain basement survey contract and to save a fraction of overall cost on a large project (17 acre commercial)

I've run into this problem before to some degree. It always seems to cost you in scope creep when survey by 'others' doesn't seem to match what is in the field. (Re. the cheaper surveyor half-a$$ed his field work to meet the reduced budget)

Has anyone had experience with this before? If so, what sort of things did you do to mitigate the potential problem. (On plans, a note indicating survey by others for sure)

But other than that, when the future calls from contractor occur, and things aren't where they should be (earthwork, infrastructure, property pins), what can be done now to protect me from scope creep in the future?

Any thoughts?

 

[PatBethea]

Seems like a non-issue to me. Like a lot of small firms, we don't have a surveying department in-house, so we always rely on survey data from "others". Just spell out what you're responsible for upfront. If the surveyor misses something, then hold him accountable - document your findings and if scope-creep occurs, then renegotiate your fees or submit a change order, etc.

I think you're making too big a deal of this.

 

[civilperson]

Provide horizontal and vertical control points along with a boundary survey and let the "others" go at it! Construction staking is not profitable, (a loss leader).

 

[cvg]

let the developer know that you will do any additional survey required on a time and material basis

 

[PELS]

Even if your client does not want your firm to do the surveying/staking, there is definitely a cost to him to have you provide meetings and coordination with the surveyor, additional plan sets, your original survey control, plan interpretation, file exchanges and construction problem resolution. I think those and a few others are the items that can be T&M costs that the client needs to understand are necessary and maybe expanded by going with an outside surveyor. The client may be cutting corners on his surveying costs but don't let that impact the quality of your work and the scope creep it will cost you.

 

[sammyk]

Happens all the time.
In your contract with your client, specify a T&M line item for "coordination with surveyor". In addition you should also have a line item for "topo check" and "boundary verification".

Your situation has come up more and more at my company and my only advice to you is to not trust someone else's work.
At a minimum make sure you are on the same datums (vert and horiz)and get some discalimers on your plans that the survey was done by others.

If you are doing the construction staking you had better due your diligence on the other surveyors work. You can bet your ass that if there is a bust and a lawsuit is involved, your company will be named no matter how many disclaimers you put on your plans..

No diligence = higher insurance premiums/deductables in the long run!!

 

[Hoagie]

I wouldn't worry too much about the 'other' surveyor's work. If there is something wrong with his work, construction surely will let you know. If he's registered, then trust he will behave like a pro and deliver good work. Don't make too much of a deal over this else you may be perceived as a weenie. Try to be cool--most engineers/young project managers have trouble doing so. Communicate your concerns with the client--make a record of the conversation and move on with your work. In some states, like CA, it's required to cite sources of topo and boundary info. Check with your Board--see how they deal with it.

 

[francesca]

I have worked for a small engineering & surveying outfit and now work for a large engineering & planning outfit. From my perspective, the difference is how far away the surveyor I call is when I have a problem. It seems to me that the risk of scope creep is if you do not rein yourself in as you're accustomed to doing surveying in-house.

I suggest you make it clear to your client that you will be calling their surveyor for all issues, no matter how trivial, and if your client complains set up a separate contract for dealing with surveying issues on this project. I'm sure when your client realizes it's a gravy train for you he will think twice about budget surveying in the future.

 

[drkgray]

Agreed. Moreover, if the rival survey firm is one from your area, your surveyors should know their reputability. If it's good, use the data. If not, verify at least the control network with your own crew. Contract everything with the owner in writing and up front. I like the T&M recommendation to verify (or correct) any "other" survey errors discovered.

That said, cheaper doesn't always reflect a deficiency in quality... sometimes its just Capitalism.