Structural Proposals?

[SteelPE]

I have always been told through my school days that structural engineering fees should be .5-1.5% of construction costs. When preparing proposals for projects I figure out how much time the project will take tan then multiply it by my hourly rate. For a check, I try to estimate construction costs and apply the %'s listed above to make sure I am at least in the correct zip code. The problem that I have is that no one has ever told me if that is based upon the shell of the building or the building with finishes. Would it be possible for anyone to give advice as to how to properly apply these %'s?

For example, a 40,000 square foot office building I have the following:

$120/square foot for the "shell".

$200/square foot for the "shell" plus finishes.

What number would one apply these % numbers to?

 

[jayrod12]

With the complexity (from a design standpoint) of some of the buildings nowadays I find the % of construction cost method to be a little tough to justify.

However that being said, I believe when we are using that type of fee generation it's usually shell plus finishes but no site work.

 

[kipfoot]

The numbers you cite work out to around 8% of the cost of the structure. For example, if the structure is 15% of the overall construction cost, then 8% of 15% is 1.2% of the overall cost. I think of it in terms of the construction costs of the structure only.

With this in mind, the cost to design a shell would be the same as the cost to design the finished building because it's the same structure.

 

[atrizzy]

I try to look at the proposal price from as many angles as possible:

-hours required times a productivity factor
-set cost per drawing ($1000-3000 depending)
-% of structure construction cost (as per above)

and anything else that might apply. Sometimes I'll get pretty different numbers and need to massage the values some to make it fit. I'm pretty new to being on my own and this is one of the things that still confuses me most, to be honest.

 

[SteelPE]

atrizzy,

What you do is specifically what I am doing. I am looking at a project and estimating the amount of time I think it would take to complete the project. Then I am taking the % construction cost number. Problem is sometimes these orders of magnitude apart. Then I'm left with trying to figure out if I am applying the numbers correctly.

 

[WARose]

I don't know that there is a magic bullet......the % approach is a criteria I use as well......but that can lead to a BS answer in a number of circumstances (especially modification jobs, where the engineering cost can be just about as much as the construction if no equipment is added).

I normally take 3 passes (and go with the one that makes the most sense):

--The % approach you are talking about.

--Number of drawings I think it will take. The cost there will be 40-120 hrs per drawing (that includes engineering, drafting, etc.) The total number of hours will be multiplied by my rate to get the overall fee. If you will note, there is a pretty good range on the hours per drawing. For example, obviously designing a slab on grade (that will take up a whole drawing) with standard details is a different ball game than a detailed framing layout for equipment support.

--Just a straight estimate on how long it should take. (I.e. man hours.)

 

[Contraflexure74]

Back in the boom fees would be based on 2% of both shell and core cost + civils cost. Nowadays if you get 1-1.5% your doing well.

 

[EngineeringEric]

I sometimes take square footage and multiply by a unit cost for structure that i am familar with say $120/sq.ft then use this for the structure cost. This way i do not increase my fee for the additional complexity of the building's finish. But i still do as the others say. Hours vs sheets vs % Construction vs a percent of AE fee (sometimes different)

 

[JLNJ]

The biggest consideration is how much repetition you have from bay to bay and floor to floor.

You can do a $50M building on ten sheets or it might take you fifty sheets, depending on the ambition of the architect.

I've made good money on 1/2% number for a school and got my butt totally kicked on 1/2% fee for a residence hall.