Structural Engineering Subscription Service/Is Structural Engineering Under-consumed? 3

[deyrup]

Let me just preface this with saying that I am not trying to sell anything; just curious if the service exists and if it makes sense. I noticed that a couple of other fields have subscription based models; for example there are financial planners that will provide advice for a yearly fee and some doctors have started offering subscription services for routine medical care. I was wondering if there are already exists a service like that for structural engineers on the consumer level. It seems like professions that can provide ongoing value fit well into the subscription model. Every year a financial planner can help you adjust your portfolio so there is at least an incentive to continue the service. It seems like structural engineering doesn't necessarily fit into that model in the way that the service is typically consumed. Usually a customer will have a single project that they want done and hire an engineer. It seems like a structural engineer could provide ongoing value though if they could provide energy efficiency recommendations, maintenance recommendations, and a general house improvement plan that can be adjusted based on life circumstances. Do people think that the ongoing advice an engineer could provide would not be high enough to justify the cost of paying the engineer? Put another way are people under-consuming the services that structural engineers provide and would both parties if more of the service was consumed?

 

[1503-44]

The majority of people rarely, if ever, require the service of a structural engineer, whereas I call my accountant once or twice a month. Fortunately I dont have ongoing needs for med or legal advice.

You might find some interest in custom home builders and architects, but IMO, demand is not high enough to justify a monthly or yearly service based fee. Better off selling a high value diamond once a year than pushing quartz every day.

 

[rscassar]

I have seen some demand for what people are calling in my location "Asset Management". Generally local or state level government or large privatized companies, are employed to monitor large infrastructure assets like highway structures, historic buildings or mining structures.

 

[deyrup]

I assume that large businesses and governments have this idea for structural engineers by keeping an engineer on retainer for consulting purpose. @1503-44 to further your analogy I would take a hundred pennies over a single quarter if it requires the same amount of work. Even 25 pennies is a better than a single quarter over the long haul because there is less variability. The question is does it require the same amount of work and can I get a penny from a hundred people.

 

[1503-44]

Well collecting 100 items typically requires at least 100 times the effort of collecting 1 thing. You said it yourself, you have to repeat the penny sales pitch 100 times. Selling 1 expensive diamonds only requires that you put on your suit and tie, talk nice, target the right 5-10 clients and perfect your pitch. Its how Mazareti and Lamborghini do it.

You can do it your way, if you can find those 100 people. That was your question. If there are only 5 or 10 clients out there, you have to do it my way.

 

[Tomfh]

An ongoing subscription/premium model would be great if you could somehow pull it off!

 

[structuralCADspecialist]

Where I live the 'subscription model' is simply hiring a Structural Engineering as a full-time staffer. This includes but isn't limited to government organizations, contractors who need someone to stamp secondary structural elements, etc... For companies that can't quite afford a full time engineer it's, as one would expect, worked out on a job-to-job basis. I worked for a company that specialized in the little details and we would have up to 400 'jobs' per year. These would be things like residential remodels (taking out a bearing wall and replacing it with a beam) and signing off on seismic restraint systems for various MEC related fixtures. Accommodating rooftop units was also common. An individual contractor might have 1 job per year or 25. It was highly variable in that particular office, so I think a subscription type arrangement would end up either burning the eng. or the client.

I notice that structural engineers often feel they are undercompensated. Many definitely are. Based on the topics heading (particularly the "under-consumed" part) I wonder if this topic is related to that. I think there is a plethora of ways that engineers could increase their compensation. Easier said than done as so many people these days are averse to change.

 

[Tomfh]

I notice that structural engineers often feel they are undercompensated. Many definitely are. Based on the topics heading (particularly the "under-consumed" part) I wonder if this topic is related to that

Engineers don’t seem great at managing the overall status of the profession. We’re no good at forming esteemed quasi-monopolistic cartels like surgeons and the like. Instead of setting our fees over brandy at our secret club, we just undercut each other on the open market.

 

[deyrup]

The issue that I have run into is that I often want to ask a couple of questions to a structural engineer every year. Recent examples are best methods for sound proofing a bedroom, how to most efficiently run a heating system, etc. I can usually find the information on the internet, but it is not worth the time it takes me to do that. Contractors often have a solution that will work, but it is not necessarily the best or most cost effective. If I could pay someone a fixed amount each year to answer some questions and give some advice I would happily do that. The issue with the current pricing model is that it is very expensive for both parties, and I suspect that it leads people to not consult with a structural engineer as often as they should. The structural engineer has a lot of upfront costs in dealing with a new customer. I am not sure how much my situation is reflective of the general population, and the devil is always in the details. Would the clients take up so much of the engineers time that he ends up getting paid very little per hour, can the engineer generate enough value that it is worth the fee, etc.

 

[SWComposites]

Don’t think structural engineers are typically experts in sound proofing or heating systems.

 

[deyrup]

Fair enough; I thought they received training in general building science in addition to strictly structural issues. Is there not a type of an engineer that receives training in general building science? I suppose it is ad-hoc learned by general contractors?

 

[Ron]

deyrup....most engineering curricula do not include a general building course. I have taught a general building course in a Construction Management program, but within the same college is the engineering department and they don't have such a course.

 

[rscassar]

neither of those two items are structural. You could likely find a structural engineer who has a strong knowledge of non-structural items that comprise other aspects of a functional building design but unlikely they would provide that in their scope of services. Given the litigious nature of the construction industry, most professional engineers are very astute to keeping within their services and area of expertise.

 

[deyrup]

Thank you for the knowledge! I would have thought there would be a single type of engineer that would do "general building things" in some ways I am surprised there isn't, but there are a lot of systems involved in buildings that require knowledge in more than one field of engineering.

 

[jimstructures]

Deyrup,

For "general building things" talk to an Architect, for will the building stand up or will the building support this additional load talk to a Structural Engineer.

Jim

 

[r13]

Is there not a type of an engineer that receives training in general building science?

Yes, "Building Inspector" course offers almost every topic/field of engineering related to the building. But it is a vocational program, not in the traditional college curriculum. Upon successful completion and passing exam, the person is called a "certified building inspector", not engineer though.

 

[gte447f]

deyrup, as others have pointed out, the two examples you gave of sound proofing and heating systems are not structural engineering. Back to your original question about a subscription service for structural engineering... it sounds like you may be thinking of such a service to serve the residential home owner market like yourself? If so, then I can say with 100% certainty, there is absolutely no demand for such a service at all. Even on a job by job basis, it is very difficult to communicate the value of structural engineering services to the general public in the residential home owner market. They usually have ridiculously uninformed opinions of what they need help with and of what structural engineers do, so they think they can hire you for 30 minutes or an hour to answer some question or other. It literally takes that long to answer the phone, listen to their backstory, get them to sign your service agreement, send them an invoice, and get them to pay it.

You said that you think that you can find the answers to your questions on the internet, but that it is not worth your time to search the internet. Well, is it worth a minimum of $500-$1,000 of your money to have a registered professional engineer answer your question?, because that is what it will take. If so, you are the exception to the rule.

 

[deyrup]

@gte447 I think I proved your point with my own question, about the general public being uninformed about exactly what structural engineers do. In general though yes some of my questions are worth spending $500 to get answered; for example we had some settling happen in the house at some point and a contractor suggested that we jack up the house to remedy the settling and install permanent columns. It would cost 10-15k to do that, so spending 500 to determine if I need to spend 15k seems reasonable. I will say having had a home inspection done by a structural engineer was not that useful in that recommendations were made, but no context was given to the relative importance, immediacy, and the relative cost of the different issues. To be fair to the engineer that sort of request might be outside the scope of a reasonable expectation, and there might be legal issues with them giving that kind of advice. I do agree with everyone here that a subscription service for structural engineers for home owners would probably provide little value to anyone involved.

While I don't think contractors are trying to take advantage their incentive is to get the customer to spend the most money possible while also not leaving the customer dissatisfied. In general a home owner is in a bad situation in trying to figure out what to do with their home; they don't know what the possible solutions or the tradeoffs are in different solutions, and often end up with a result that didn't solve their problem, pay too much when a cheaper solution exists, or pay to little when they would be better served by the more expensive solution. You see similar problems happen in investing when people hire a person that isn't a fiduciary as their financial adviser; the adviser will steer them to expensive funds even if the adviser isn't deliberately trying to take advantage. This topic might be outside of the scope of the forum, and if so I apologize.

 

[JoshPlumSE]

I've seen some people have contracts similar to what rcassar said about asset management. Large organizations (military, hospitals, or corporations with aging infrastructure) hire engineers to assist with their "asset management". This may include a number of site visits per year to assess existing buildings or evaluate expansion plans. Not traditional engineering work. But, definitely related to it.

One company that I knew who did this was Civil / Structural engineers, but they also specialized in "building envelope" work. So, they'd go through and assess the estimate life span of the existing roofing of the various building on a campus / base.... as well as provide some guidance about engineering and project scope for various expansion projects or equipment upgrades.

 

[12345abc6ttyui67]

In the UK we have a discipline called a "Building Services Engineer" or similar who is generally some one with a less detailed but more wide ranging knowledge of e.g. heating, lighting, HVAC, sound, fire, insulation and the like. I don't think it any overly common career choice as most people will go down a specific avenue e.g. Fire Engineer, HVAC Engineer, etc.