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Specs on Print without date 1
- Thread starter umatrix
- Start date
Yes. Or no. It depends on what the contract says to do about it. Almost always it is for the specifications that were current at the time the original contract was written, which is usually around the same time as the drawing was signed and released, but this is not always the case - some contracts take long enough to fulfill that a revision can be issued during it - but still it's per when the contract was issued.
Some specifications are such that they never change the older components; for example the SAE automotive oil grades seem to keep the antiques around without change, simply adding new identifiers to identify oils with new identifiers. Others, like ASME Y14.5 require the exact date of issue to be on the drawing in order to be compliant with that standard and they do change the meanings of existing identifiers; not hugely, but often in incompatible ways (it's complicated.)
Some specifications are such that they never change the older components; for example the SAE automotive oil grades seem to keep the antiques around without change, simply adding new identifiers to identify oils with new identifiers. Others, like ASME Y14.5 require the exact date of issue to be on the drawing in order to be compliant with that standard and they do change the meanings of existing identifiers; not hugely, but often in incompatible ways (it's complicated.)
JohnRBaker
Mechanical
You can bet that right now in Florida, any building either under construction or soon to be, that the drawings will be viewed as having to comply not only with the current standards and practices, but those that are currently under review due to the recent tragedy in Miami Beach, and NOT necessarily those that were valid when the drawings were finished and signed-off on.
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-'Product Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:
The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-'Product Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:
The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
EdStainless
Materials
Depends, if ASTM then yes you must use the current version. The version is not considered part of the spec ID.
Some specs such as ASME or AMS require the revision call out (date or rev letter) in order to be valid.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed
Some specs such as ASME or AMS require the revision call out (date or rev letter) in order to be valid.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed
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1
- #6
Think about it.
Imagine you are asked to build something to an old print. Just to have a date, let's say a print dated 1981.
It invokes a standard by reference, without date.
What version of the standard did the engineer or designer have available when they cited the standard?
At best, they had the 1981 version, or whatever version was current in 1981. The unfortunate reality is that they possibly had something older.
Did they have the 2021 version? Of course not, because that's impossible.
In 40 years, did anything in the standard change? Probably.
Would any of the changes affect the performance of the thing if the 2021 version were used instead of the 1981 version? Maybe.
Someone needs to look at the changes, and make an assessment.
Imagine you are asked to build something to an old print. Just to have a date, let's say a print dated 1981.
It invokes a standard by reference, without date.
What version of the standard did the engineer or designer have available when they cited the standard?
At best, they had the 1981 version, or whatever version was current in 1981. The unfortunate reality is that they possibly had something older.
Did they have the 2021 version? Of course not, because that's impossible.
In 40 years, did anything in the standard change? Probably.
Would any of the changes affect the performance of the thing if the 2021 version were used instead of the 1981 version? Maybe.
Someone needs to look at the changes, and make an assessment.
Umatrix:
I would expect that a spec. or std. call-out, on a drawing, would refer the latest ed. of that spec. or std. as of/at the time that the design and drawing were done. If they meant an earlier spec. or std. they should explicitly call that out. And, of course, they couldn’t be referring to unknown future stds. Your current client or contract could indicate that you should follow the current/latest stds. for the work you are now doing, or for parts which must be replaced, etc. There shouldn’t be much doubt that engineers and drafters are a lazy lot, or they might actually show a spec. or std. number and date on the drawing, to save confusion. Alternatively, they could use my favorite new acronym ‘tsIalarn’ on all the drawings, which stands for ‘the spec. I am looking at right now.’
I would expect that a spec. or std. call-out, on a drawing, would refer the latest ed. of that spec. or std. as of/at the time that the design and drawing were done. If they meant an earlier spec. or std. they should explicitly call that out. And, of course, they couldn’t be referring to unknown future stds. Your current client or contract could indicate that you should follow the current/latest stds. for the work you are now doing, or for parts which must be replaced, etc. There shouldn’t be much doubt that engineers and drafters are a lazy lot, or they might actually show a spec. or std. number and date on the drawing, to save confusion. Alternatively, they could use my favorite new acronym ‘tsIalarn’ on all the drawings, which stands for ‘the spec. I am looking at right now.’
In reading the ASTM web (ASTM A269 / A269M - 15a(2019) Standard Specification for Seamless and Welded Austenitic Stainless Steel Tubing for General Service), it states the following about using their document citations:
Citation Format
ASTM A269 / A269M-15a(2019), Standard Specification for Seamless and Welded Austenitic Stainless Steel Tubing for General Service, ASTM International, West Conshohocken, PA, 2019,
I have mentioned it before to our engineering staff that we need to be specific as to which year of publication of a document we are referencing as it may not always be the latest edition. A good example is ASME Y14.5. On our drawing formats we specify this as ASME Y14.5-2009 since there is a newer edition, ASME Y14.5-2018, that has been released and we do not have CAD software that conforms to the latest standard, yet.
"Wildfires are dangerous, hard to control, and economically catastrophic."
Ben Loosli
Citation Format
ASTM A269 / A269M-15a(2019), Standard Specification for Seamless and Welded Austenitic Stainless Steel Tubing for General Service, ASTM International, West Conshohocken, PA, 2019,
I have mentioned it before to our engineering staff that we need to be specific as to which year of publication of a document we are referencing as it may not always be the latest edition. A good example is ASME Y14.5. On our drawing formats we specify this as ASME Y14.5-2009 since there is a newer edition, ASME Y14.5-2018, that has been released and we do not have CAD software that conforms to the latest standard, yet.
"Wildfires are dangerous, hard to control, and economically catastrophic."
Ben Loosli
VERSION/CONFIGURATION CONTROL; that should be a given. There's no way to design for requirements that don't even exist yet, so the version the design is compliant to needs to be explicitly spelled out. You wouldn't necessarily allow all possible configurations of a design to work together, so you ought not expect external specs to all work together. Legacy compatibility, even with Microsoft, doesn't last forever.
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I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
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