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Software Piracy 9
- Thread starter Binary
- Start date
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- #2
I have no strong opinion as to whether you should report such if you should see it. It may make for a good ace up the sleeve if one should be disgruntled.
However, I have strong reservations against pirating software if I was asked to do so. It is theft, and I will not do it.
However, I have strong reservations against pirating software if I was asked to do so. It is theft, and I will not do it.
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- #3
Software piracy is using the work product of someone else, possibility a fellow engineer, without compensating the other for his or her work.
The Manitoba Association came out and stated quite plainly that software piracy was illegal and would be considered a serious breech of ethics by any P.Eng committing the act. Since the act and ethics also state that an engineer must report unethical acts, I would consider that the responsibility for any engineer who commits or condones such acts is the same.
I believe that you have a responsibility to inform the software creator and if the guilty party is a fellow P.Eng, your local association.
Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng
Construction Project Management
From conception to completion
The Manitoba Association came out and stated quite plainly that software piracy was illegal and would be considered a serious breech of ethics by any P.Eng committing the act. Since the act and ethics also state that an engineer must report unethical acts, I would consider that the responsibility for any engineer who commits or condones such acts is the same.
I believe that you have a responsibility to inform the software creator and if the guilty party is a fellow P.Eng, your local association.
Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng
Construction Project Management
From conception to completion
- Thread starter
- #4
Binary--
Use of it is theft. I wouldn't work for an employer that knowingly does it (as that employer is showing huge ethical lapses, and ethics aside the consequence of such misconduct can be the financial collapse of a business).
Regarding costing somebody his/her job, this would in the U.S. fall under federal whistle-blowing laws. The best thing (financially) that could happen to an employee is to be fired for such an action.
My employer is very strict in "dotting i's and crossing t's" in this category. I would expect that most businesses larger than a few people behave the same way (at least in industrialized contries, where failure to behave has potentially severe economic consequences).
Brad
Use of it is theft. I wouldn't work for an employer that knowingly does it (as that employer is showing huge ethical lapses, and ethics aside the consequence of such misconduct can be the financial collapse of a business).
Regarding costing somebody his/her job, this would in the U.S. fall under federal whistle-blowing laws. The best thing (financially) that could happen to an employee is to be fired for such an action.
My employer is very strict in "dotting i's and crossing t's" in this category. I would expect that most businesses larger than a few people behave the same way (at least in industrialized contries, where failure to behave has potentially severe economic consequences).
Brad
I have not been in the position of being dependent on pirated software, even in small companies. I also do not ask questions when the answer will not do anyone any good. MYOB, so to speak. I have also left a job because I didn't like management's lack of ethics.
I have actually blown the whistle on people using another respected engineering forum to hawk pirated software. So, maybe I wouldn't just stand by and let it happen. I don't steal music on the internet, either. I was a musician and songwriter, once, and I can't abide stealing musicians' intellectual (in the loosest definition) property.
I have actually blown the whistle on people using another respected engineering forum to hawk pirated software. So, maybe I wouldn't just stand by and let it happen. I don't steal music on the internet, either. I was a musician and songwriter, once, and I can't abide stealing musicians' intellectual (in the loosest definition) property.
- Thread starter
- #9
- Thread starter
- #10
Another thought:
One could argue that the best course of action would be to work within the company to achieve licensing compliance. If successful then everybody wins. Software companies get their compensation and the company doesn't get decimated by penalties thereby meaning the line workers get to keep their jobs.
I dunno...does this just come off as weak rationalization?
The ironic thing is that the same company that would pirate software would certainly fire employees for stealing from the company or file suits in defense of patents.
One could argue that the best course of action would be to work within the company to achieve licensing compliance. If successful then everybody wins. Software companies get their compensation and the company doesn't get decimated by penalties thereby meaning the line workers get to keep their jobs.
I dunno...does this just come off as weak rationalization?
The ironic thing is that the same company that would pirate software would certainly fire employees for stealing from the company or file suits in defense of patents.
VoyageofDiscovery
Structural
Hi Binary,
I agree with you, many times companies are hesitant to purchase software until they see the fruits of the labour, so many software companies now offer free versions of there software for a limited time period, if you can't use it productively in this time it's probably not worth it.
This evolvement is win-win and as professionals it removes the ethical issue.
Regards
VOD
I agree with you, many times companies are hesitant to purchase software until they see the fruits of the labour, so many software companies now offer free versions of there software for a limited time period, if you can't use it productively in this time it's probably not worth it.
This evolvement is win-win and as professionals it removes the ethical issue.
Regards
VOD
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JamesBarlow
Mechanical
>The Tick:
>I think the ethics in this case are actually as clear as >ethics can get. It gets muddy when you throw in wife, >kids, mortgage, career, etc.
I agree with that %100. It's one thing to say it's wrong and that the company should be turned in and that the feds will protect you.
It's another thing to know that the financial impact of the fines will bankrupt the company and put everyone out of work.
My personal opinion on this is that the situation won't really improve until everyone does something about it. That would be users as well as the software companies. AutoCAD is a great example. They know people are pirating the software, so they sell it for 10 times more than it's worth, to make up the lost money. A small company can't afford to pay such a ridiculous price for the software, so they buy one seat and copy the rest. The cylce is perpetuated.
>I think the ethics in this case are actually as clear as >ethics can get. It gets muddy when you throw in wife, >kids, mortgage, career, etc.
I agree with that %100. It's one thing to say it's wrong and that the company should be turned in and that the feds will protect you.
It's another thing to know that the financial impact of the fines will bankrupt the company and put everyone out of work.
My personal opinion on this is that the situation won't really improve until everyone does something about it. That would be users as well as the software companies. AutoCAD is a great example. They know people are pirating the software, so they sell it for 10 times more than it's worth, to make up the lost money. A small company can't afford to pay such a ridiculous price for the software, so they buy one seat and copy the rest. The cylce is perpetuated.
Another interesting aspect of piracy is that of the small business operator. This person may have an office and a home office. What if that person worked for themselves and did the majority of the work at the main office and some tidy up type works at the home office (finish the odd job, update the accounts, etc).
Many of the main engineering software suppliers seem to assist this by the use of dongles or transferable licenses (autocad). Many of the major office software suppliers do not (microsoft, intuit (quickbooks accounting)), yet these very companies are the main complaintants when it comes to piracy.
I know the small business person could use a laptop, which are generally not that great for engineering software (unless you spend a small fortune) but suitable for business software.
I think that many vendors could reduce the risk of piracy by simple use of dongles or license transfer software. Whether a person is in a small business or large if they did some work at home it is possible to take the dongle/license with them. The end result would be a great reduction in piracy.
I know I would be happy to pay any extra for this.
regards
sc
Many of the main engineering software suppliers seem to assist this by the use of dongles or transferable licenses (autocad). Many of the major office software suppliers do not (microsoft, intuit (quickbooks accounting)), yet these very companies are the main complaintants when it comes to piracy.
I know the small business person could use a laptop, which are generally not that great for engineering software (unless you spend a small fortune) but suitable for business software.
I think that many vendors could reduce the risk of piracy by simple use of dongles or license transfer software. Whether a person is in a small business or large if they did some work at home it is possible to take the dongle/license with them. The end result would be a great reduction in piracy.
I know I would be happy to pay any extra for this.
regards
sc
sc,
For many pc-based software a few years back, I recall that one was allowed multiple installs of the software so long as they were not in simultaneous use. The intent of this was to allow for such as you have described. I would expect that for many softwares, this no longer holds (as I don't know how somebody could unequivocally prove multiple simultaneous use short of the user confessing their guilt).
I recall that my wife encountered this some years back, with respect to a piece of software which was simultaneously loaded on her laptop and workstation. According to the user agreement, this was acceptable practice. As both machines were hers, the code was never in simultaneous use.
Brad
For many pc-based software a few years back, I recall that one was allowed multiple installs of the software so long as they were not in simultaneous use. The intent of this was to allow for such as you have described. I would expect that for many softwares, this no longer holds (as I don't know how somebody could unequivocally prove multiple simultaneous use short of the user confessing their guilt).
I recall that my wife encountered this some years back, with respect to a piece of software which was simultaneously loaded on her laptop and workstation. According to the user agreement, this was acceptable practice. As both machines were hers, the code was never in simultaneous use.
Brad
It would be nice if the software publishers actually made it easier to install multiple copies. At the moment to install microsoft and intuit products to multiple machines (read one at office and one at home) you have to register each installation.
Microsoft is at the moment OK with this but reading vaious magazines this may not be the case for much longer. Intuit on the other hand makes it damn tedious at the best to register a second installation and will often leave you feeling like you are lying to them. If it is OK to have more than one installation why not have a registration method that allows a second install without the 10 minute quiz on the legality of the installation. God forbid if you are upgrading your PC or rebuilding after a fairly major crash, as any more than 2 registration attempts in the one year is generally worse again.
I guess my post should have been directed at the registration process rather than the licensing issue although they are related.
regards
sc
Microsoft is at the moment OK with this but reading vaious magazines this may not be the case for much longer. Intuit on the other hand makes it damn tedious at the best to register a second installation and will often leave you feeling like you are lying to them. If it is OK to have more than one installation why not have a registration method that allows a second install without the 10 minute quiz on the legality of the installation. God forbid if you are upgrading your PC or rebuilding after a fairly major crash, as any more than 2 registration attempts in the one year is generally worse again.
I guess my post should have been directed at the registration process rather than the licensing issue although they are related.
regards
sc
- Thread starter
- #16
I believe that the Autodesk license does (or certainly did) permit a user to install the software on his/her personal machine at home if it was also installed on her/his machine at work.
At least that's what the sales rep told us. I never read the EULA so I don't know for sure.
At least that's what the sales rep told us. I never read the EULA so I don't know for sure.
Yes Autodesk does allow multiple installations, however in Australia they have a "transferable" license.
This allows you to export the license file to another PC, which is quite quick and easy. So you only need one license but can use it where-ever you wish to install the software.
![[2thumbsup]](/data/assets/smilies/2thumbsup.gif "[2thumbsup] [2thumbsup]")
If Autodesk can do it so easily why not other companies? Probably some copyright on the license software or related cost issue. To me it is better to pay a little bit extra up front, than to feel like a criminal when you wish to have an additional instal at home.
regards
sc
This allows you to export the license file to another PC, which is quite quick and easy. So you only need one license but can use it where-ever you wish to install the software.
If Autodesk can do it so easily why not other companies? Probably some copyright on the license software or related cost issue. To me it is better to pay a little bit extra up front, than to feel like a criminal when you wish to have an additional instal at home.
regards
sc
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- #18
This is my first post and I hope that I can relay some information as well as receive some advice from you good people.
I’m a CNC programmer. I got a job working in the Model Shop at a fairly large company that manufactures firearms. I’ve been there 90 days and I’ve just been given my 90 day review and a pay raise. I’ve also been told that I’m being reviewed for a promotion to the R&D lab as I’ve been working with those guys “making their parts for them” and they are very happy that I can do the work.
In order to do the 3D stuff I’ve got to leave the model shop and go into the “Engineering” dept. and use the computers in order to download the models and write the CNC programs for the machining centers. I’ve been given the passwords and login for four PC’s that I’m allowed to use.
Well, here’s the kicker…The CAM software is “Hot” and they know about it. The four seats that I know about are not licensed to the company that I work for. Apparently the production software that they use to make the production parts doesn’t have the “Horsepower” to do the tough jobs so the R&D guys use the bootleg CAM software. One guy says that his PC has a version that he purchased himself and that he has the license. (I believe that he may have been contract and then signed on permanent so it’s possible that it really does belong to him) It’s not licensed to the company. The other seat(s) is a cracked version and they openly admit it. They don’t like me using the “Hot” seats so they steer me toward the “Licensed” seat whenever they can.
Having been on all seats I can attest to the fact that just about every product that they manufacture has been prototyped using the bootleg software and that millions and millions of dollars worth of military contracts have been secured as the direct result.
I feel terrible using the software. I went to two different schools for three semesters in order to learn how to use the stuff to write programs and the software company even gave me a break on a student version so that I could use it at home on my own PC. Not to mention the fact that I think about the poor bastard(s) that racked his brain writing the code that makes my job so much easier.
I don’t know what to do, quit….Dial 1-800 you’re %&8@ed or just keep my mouth shut and try to do my work without using the software. I really enjoy the work as it is definitely interesting stuff but I was raised different.
Anyway thanks for listening and allowing me to spill my guts. I could use a few suggestions on how to proceed.
Regards,
Toolpath
I’m a CNC programmer. I got a job working in the Model Shop at a fairly large company that manufactures firearms. I’ve been there 90 days and I’ve just been given my 90 day review and a pay raise. I’ve also been told that I’m being reviewed for a promotion to the R&D lab as I’ve been working with those guys “making their parts for them” and they are very happy that I can do the work.
In order to do the 3D stuff I’ve got to leave the model shop and go into the “Engineering” dept. and use the computers in order to download the models and write the CNC programs for the machining centers. I’ve been given the passwords and login for four PC’s that I’m allowed to use.
Well, here’s the kicker…The CAM software is “Hot” and they know about it. The four seats that I know about are not licensed to the company that I work for. Apparently the production software that they use to make the production parts doesn’t have the “Horsepower” to do the tough jobs so the R&D guys use the bootleg CAM software. One guy says that his PC has a version that he purchased himself and that he has the license. (I believe that he may have been contract and then signed on permanent so it’s possible that it really does belong to him) It’s not licensed to the company. The other seat(s) is a cracked version and they openly admit it. They don’t like me using the “Hot” seats so they steer me toward the “Licensed” seat whenever they can.
Having been on all seats I can attest to the fact that just about every product that they manufacture has been prototyped using the bootleg software and that millions and millions of dollars worth of military contracts have been secured as the direct result.
I feel terrible using the software. I went to two different schools for three semesters in order to learn how to use the stuff to write programs and the software company even gave me a break on a student version so that I could use it at home on my own PC. Not to mention the fact that I think about the poor bastard(s) that racked his brain writing the code that makes my job so much easier.
I don’t know what to do, quit….Dial 1-800 you’re %&8@ed or just keep my mouth shut and try to do my work without using the software. I really enjoy the work as it is definitely interesting stuff but I was raised different.
Anyway thanks for listening and allowing me to spill my guts. I could use a few suggestions on how to proceed.
Regards,
Toolpath
In a nutshell, you are screwed whatever you do.
If you report the company then you may lose a job you want. If you do not then you are guilty of a crime.
Make no mistake, stealing software is a crime.
Which would you rather be, an ethical unemployed engineer or an unethical employed engineer?
How would the company react if their designs were copied and manufactured by another company without them getting any payment or other royalty for their work?
Start off by working within the company to bring them into compliance with the licensing of the product, if that does not work then you really have no ethical way out rather than reporting the firm.
It will be an unfortunate outcome of that that you will most likely lose your job.
I also find it ironic, since I am also active in a political forum, where the Second Amendment supporters claim that guns reduce crime, that a gun manufacturer would be guilty of a crime.
Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng
Construction Project Management
From conception to completion
If you report the company then you may lose a job you want. If you do not then you are guilty of a crime.
Make no mistake, stealing software is a crime.
Which would you rather be, an ethical unemployed engineer or an unethical employed engineer?
How would the company react if their designs were copied and manufactured by another company without them getting any payment or other royalty for their work?
Start off by working within the company to bring them into compliance with the licensing of the product, if that does not work then you really have no ethical way out rather than reporting the firm.
It will be an unfortunate outcome of that that you will most likely lose your job.
I also find it ironic, since I am also active in a political forum, where the Second Amendment supporters claim that guns reduce crime, that a gun manufacturer would be guilty of a crime.
Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng
Construction Project Management
From conception to completion
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