I have a very old relay settings "manual" here that says the following:
Typical values in percent of nameplate rating to motor:
Condensing steam turbine 1 to 3 percent
non-condensing steam turbine 3 percent or more
2 cycle diesel 25 percent
4 cycle diesel 0.2 to 2 percent or more
single shaft gas turbine 100 percent
double shaft gas turbine 10 to 15 percent
I'd get recommended settings from the turbine manufacturer and follow that. For steam turbines, the values are quite low, as suggested. This is necessary for large units to prevent overheating in the low pressure sections that required steam flow for cooling. Some units even employ
The 32 device is to protect the prime mover, not the generator.
Those were typical values of generator motoring, so the 32R setting would be something less than that.
I agree with dpc, if you can, get the information from the turbine manufacturer.
Well, I seem to have sent that last message in mid-sentence somehow. To finish my thought. Many steam turbines have "Low Forward Power" trip that is similar to Reverse Power, but on a longer time delay.
Also, many steam turbine-generators use reverse power to prove that the stop valves are actually closed before taking the generator off-line.
Gas Turbine - Major European Manuafacturer, 100MW range but I don't think it's much different for the larger frames.
First setting is not protection per se but how the generator breaker is normally opened. The second setting acts fast when the turbine trip valve is closed during trip.
You need a time delay, or else you'll often trip as soon as you synchronize. Again, the prime mover manufacturer is the best source of setting info, especially if it still under warranty.
dpc,
it is not so easy! there is a hierarchy of communication and responsibilities: owner, owner's engineering firm, company designer, consultant relay settings, salesman of the manufacturer, the manufacturer.
I am with owner's engineering firm.
I am asking for setting used by turbines YOU know, not manufacturer.
In my experience, for new units, these settings are nearly always provided by the turbine manufacturer. When I have commissioned such protections, I have seen disclaimers on the settings reports from the manufacturer stating that the warranty would be invalidated if the settings were changed and the manufacturer were not consulted. I am seen this specifically on GE and Siemens GT settings packages.
Out of curiosity, I have checked and the settings provided by manufacturer generally fall within the typical ranges of 32-1 and 32-2 stated above for gas turbines.
dpc,
No , it is not easy.
Chinese manufacturer of hydro turbine(bulb)-generator propose an emergence stop sequence for generator-turbine BUT client did not accept!
Thank you.
The original question was about a gas or steam turbine. The 32R function is to protection of the prime mover. Now it appears this is a hydro unit? In your own separate posting
Yes, it is for the same Project!
During the comissioning of a submerged generator and impellers , bubble turbine, was realized the generator motoring:
the motoring was in the range of -100% power, ie, a machine 80 MW, a received power of approximately reverse in the turbine-130MW . Generator absorver active power in a gradient of 40MW per second!
In the books of classic protection (Mason, Blackburn) the engine is in the range of 0.2-2% of the power generator ..
Books latest reported that the motors can be more than 2% when the turbine is fully immersed in water.
My question: What is more? 4% or 10%?
Reverse Power relay(32) was originally set for 5%, TD=20sec. After comissioning we are changing 32:
Stop valve close AND 32I (5% ,TD=1ms) operated => trip generator circuit breaker.
32T(5%, TD=5ms) operated => trip generator circuit breaker and stop machine.
Even with with this setting generator can be motorized with 40MW(1ms) or 130MW(5ms).
Anyway, I guess the books of protection for hydrogenerator stopped in 1960.
Yes, it is for the same Project!
During the comissioning of a submerged generator and impellers , bubble turbine, was realized the generator motoring:
the motoring was in the range of -100% power, ie, a machine 80 MW, a received power of approximately reverse in the turbine-130MW . Generator absorver active power in a gradient of 40MW per second!
In the books of classic protection (Mason, Blackburn) the motorization is in the range of 0.2-2% of the power generator..
Books latest reported that the motorization can be more than 2% when the turbine is fully immersed in water.
My question: What is more? 4% or 10%?
Reverse Power relay(32) was originally set for 5%, TD=20sec. After comissioning we are changing 32:
Stop valve closed AND 32I (5% ,TD=1ms) operated => trip generator circuit breaker.
32T(5%, TD=5ms) operated => trip generator circuit breaker and stop machine.
Even with with this setting generator can be motorized with 40MW(1ms) or 130MW(5ms).
Anyway, I guess the books of protection wen applied to hydrogenerator stopped in 1960.
