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Revit Structure 5
- Thread starter Skicat
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Our entire company is in the midst of the switch. Using Revit Structure along with the platforms for Arch, Mech, Elec, etc. It has it's advantages but it also has it's growing pains. It can't really be compared to CAD and you have to get beyond the mindset of comparing it to CAD. It's different. Some things take much longer to accomplish than it would have with CAD, but others are more streamlined. It's a good switch in the end, especially since BIM is the future.
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cvanoverbeke
Mechanical
We have been using Revit Structure for the last couple of jobs. It is very powerful almost to the point of being intimidating. We also just completed a project using Revit MEP and basically the construction documents fell out of the 3D model. The files get pretty big. The Revit MEP model was 28MB. In our case we had to build the architectural model from scratch but we used Revit due to the Energy Analysis tools that links with it. Revit (BIM) is the future of the AEC industry.
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Im using it right now as a matter of fact. My best advice is that you need to be very judicial about what projects to apply Revit. There are a lot of "catches" that the Revit salespeople dont tell you about. Certain building configurations will create different problems. A lot of people are let down when they really get into the program. It has so much potential, but has a long long way to go until its productive. Anticipate spending many more man hours on revit projects.....most firms go overbudget with it.
All of the good structural firms out there are using Revit for basic floor plan layout, but leave all sections and details for autocad.
If you would like further information about the "catches" I could go into it. I think there are a few other posts on this too.
All of the good structural firms out there are using Revit for basic floor plan layout, but leave all sections and details for autocad.
If you would like further information about the "catches" I could go into it. I think there are a few other posts on this too.
We are also interested in using Revit with some of our projects, partly due to our interest in the program and it's integration with RISA, and partly due to requests from our clients. We are just not sure that if it would benefit our types of projects which are mostly extremely large custom homes where we are creating a lot of custom details. We have been researching the program and how it would link to RISA 3d for wood structures, but there is not much info on projects that are primarily wood. Any one have any info on this?
Atomic 25, I would definitely be interested on any 'catches' that may affect how I have described utilizing Revit.
Thx!
Atomic 25, I would definitely be interested on any 'catches' that may affect how I have described utilizing Revit.
Thx!
Catches:
#1 You need brand new computers with powerful video cards. If your machines aren't nearly the top of the line, it will take forever to open and scroll around.
#2 Revit doesn't catch spatial conflicts automatically. Mechanical can draw a pipe through a beam and the program will not complain.
#3 Cutting sections has huge limitations. You create a 3d model of the framing and say cut a section through a beam to beam connection. It will generate a section and will show a beam butting up to a beam, no connection hardware, clip angles, bolts etc. In the section view, you have to draw the connection hardware in by hand as 2d drafting lines over the beams. Then if later on the beam size changes, it will change the beam in your section, but the 2d drafting lines don't follow along with it. There are probably hundreds of other section types that will cause you pain....just think about it.
#4 Drafting efficiency is just slow. Menu setup is poor and drafting 2d lines takes longer than it does in Autocad. The way the program is set up is for modeling, not so much drafting IMHO.
#5 Revit models are a bad choice for complex or irregular structures. If you have anything sloped and irregular, creating models is a huge challenge because you have to know the exact coordinates where each beam goes, and you have to start making your own model pieces. We had a custom house with a an odd roof, and our Revit "expert" took about 2 months straight just to get the basic framing geometry in the model.
#6 Line weights, section titles, section markers, etc have a different look to them that you cannot easily change.
#7 We've tried ETABS and RAM links and neither have proved reliable for typical buildings.
#8 You're going through all the work to create a 3d model in order to print 2d plans.
#1 You need brand new computers with powerful video cards. If your machines aren't nearly the top of the line, it will take forever to open and scroll around.
#2 Revit doesn't catch spatial conflicts automatically. Mechanical can draw a pipe through a beam and the program will not complain.
#3 Cutting sections has huge limitations. You create a 3d model of the framing and say cut a section through a beam to beam connection. It will generate a section and will show a beam butting up to a beam, no connection hardware, clip angles, bolts etc. In the section view, you have to draw the connection hardware in by hand as 2d drafting lines over the beams. Then if later on the beam size changes, it will change the beam in your section, but the 2d drafting lines don't follow along with it. There are probably hundreds of other section types that will cause you pain....just think about it.
#4 Drafting efficiency is just slow. Menu setup is poor and drafting 2d lines takes longer than it does in Autocad. The way the program is set up is for modeling, not so much drafting IMHO.
#5 Revit models are a bad choice for complex or irregular structures. If you have anything sloped and irregular, creating models is a huge challenge because you have to know the exact coordinates where each beam goes, and you have to start making your own model pieces. We had a custom house with a an odd roof, and our Revit "expert" took about 2 months straight just to get the basic framing geometry in the model.
#6 Line weights, section titles, section markers, etc have a different look to them that you cannot easily change.
#7 We've tried ETABS and RAM links and neither have proved reliable for typical buildings.
#8 You're going through all the work to create a 3d model in order to print 2d plans.
I have been using Revit for about 2yrs now and I like it. I have really only used it for small industrial steel structures and their foundation and nothing else.
The initial projects with it are very painful due to the "catches" that have been mentioned. I have termed them "pitfalls". Sometimes it is very frustrating to do something that would be relatively simple in Autocad, but you just can't figuire out how to do it in Revit. The help manuals definitely need improvement.
The matching of current company standards is especially frustrating and difficult to do.
However, some of the benefits that I realized are
1. Work sharing on the same model. More than one person can work on the same model in different areas of it.
2. Interference checking with existing items.
3. Rapid drawing creation and annotation once you get the "catches" of company standards worked out.
4. Changing the drawings is easy and because you change the model from which the drawings get their information, all drawings update at once.
5. Reduced RFI's because of drawings not showing the same information due to last minute changes.
6. Doing and intial 1st dump of geomotry from Revit to Risa. They claim the link is bidirectional, but I just can't get it to work out good yet. Most of my stuff is small, so I just update it manually.
7. Rapid communcation of concepts to others via the 3D model.
The initial projects with it are very painful due to the "catches" that have been mentioned. I have termed them "pitfalls". Sometimes it is very frustrating to do something that would be relatively simple in Autocad, but you just can't figuire out how to do it in Revit. The help manuals definitely need improvement.
The matching of current company standards is especially frustrating and difficult to do.
However, some of the benefits that I realized are
1. Work sharing on the same model. More than one person can work on the same model in different areas of it.
2. Interference checking with existing items.
3. Rapid drawing creation and annotation once you get the "catches" of company standards worked out.
4. Changing the drawings is easy and because you change the model from which the drawings get their information, all drawings update at once.
5. Reduced RFI's because of drawings not showing the same information due to last minute changes.
6. Doing and intial 1st dump of geomotry from Revit to Risa. They claim the link is bidirectional, but I just can't get it to work out good yet. Most of my stuff is small, so I just update it manually.
7. Rapid communcation of concepts to others via the 3D model.
- Thread starter
- #11
Revit does have some less than wonderful features, but AutoCAD does as well. I'm an engineer and I draw all of my own stuff. I love the 3D modeling and while the 2d drafting can be cumbersome in Revit, at least it gives you a head start by automatically displaying the beams, columns, slabs and anything else in your 3d model. Regardless of the love / hate relationship everybody seems to have, the common consenus seems to be that Revit is the future. I guess we might as well jump on board and get a head start. Thanks again for all of your input.
DonPhillips
Structural
I have been using AutoCAD 2004 to do 2D drafting (structural, MEP, and architectural) and I am looking into getting AutoCAD Revit MEP Suite. I think the industry is headed to BIM so I am thinking Revit to be ready for that and AutoCAD as I transition from 2D to 3D. (My old 2004 version causes me problems when I work with someone using Architectural Desktop 2007). Both Revit and AutoCAD is supposed to interface with my Elite software for HVAC loads and the CAD reseller never heard of Enercalc. I'll probaby draft structural in 2D since I never do anything large and I seem to do more MEP in the tenant improvement jobs I get involved with.
Don Phillips
Don Phillips
cvanoverbeke
Mechanical
I find Don Phillips comments to be interesting. Our firm has been using Autocad and Revit MEP for 2 years now. It is so much easier to draw MEP drawings with this software. The big debate for me as the engineer is whether to switch completely to Revit MEP or stick with both software. We use Trane Trace 700 for our load calcs but with Revit is it built right in.
As for Revit Structure, I am not convinced it will make life as productive as MEP but BIM is future.
Cvanoverbeke
As for Revit Structure, I am not convinced it will make life as productive as MEP but BIM is future.
Cvanoverbeke
DonPhillips
Structural
Cvanoverbeke,
My AutoCAD Revit MEP Suite DVD's came in Friday and I hope and pray I can get a few hours within the next 30 days to try out the software. I think Revit MEP probably works best if the architect starts with Revit Architecture to ensure the building model is accurate - especially the envelope U-values - otherwise, it means entering this information into Elite to calculate heat gain/loss.
I am looking forward to having the one-line diagrams and panel schedules automatically generated - either through AutoCAD MEP or Revit MEP.
And I have to assume the plumbing isometrics is a piece of cake.
Don Phillips
My AutoCAD Revit MEP Suite DVD's came in Friday and I hope and pray I can get a few hours within the next 30 days to try out the software. I think Revit MEP probably works best if the architect starts with Revit Architecture to ensure the building model is accurate - especially the envelope U-values - otherwise, it means entering this information into Elite to calculate heat gain/loss.
I am looking forward to having the one-line diagrams and panel schedules automatically generated - either through AutoCAD MEP or Revit MEP.
And I have to assume the plumbing isometrics is a piece of cake.
Don Phillips
cvanoverbeke
Mechanical
Don Phillips
Based on your comments it sounds like you are getting Revit MEP 2009. Our firm has not received the upgrade DVDs yet. If the architects you work with use Revit, then it is definetly the way to go. Revit MEP has more features than Autocad MEP. We just finished an industrial building with Revit MEP where we did the HVAC and plumbing, no electrical but the problem was architect did drawings in 2D Autocad. After spending a week to building an architecural model, we were able to do the Mechanical stuff. The big advantage for us was the IES cooling load and heat loss calcs are part of the program. We were working with another engineer who was doing energy simulation of daylighting, process cooling etc. We used Revit to test the IES modules. Overall we are both pleased.
The biggest problem is learning all of the program nuances but you could say that for any software
Cvanoverbeke
Based on your comments it sounds like you are getting Revit MEP 2009. Our firm has not received the upgrade DVDs yet. If the architects you work with use Revit, then it is definetly the way to go. Revit MEP has more features than Autocad MEP. We just finished an industrial building with Revit MEP where we did the HVAC and plumbing, no electrical but the problem was architect did drawings in 2D Autocad. After spending a week to building an architecural model, we were able to do the Mechanical stuff. The big advantage for us was the IES cooling load and heat loss calcs are part of the program. We were working with another engineer who was doing energy simulation of daylighting, process cooling etc. We used Revit to test the IES modules. Overall we are both pleased.
The biggest problem is learning all of the program nuances but you could say that for any software
Cvanoverbeke
The benefits of Revit Structure
Some objects are easier to change, such as spread footings or wall footings. You just type in the width dimension and it redraws the foundation for you.
Some industrial applications where you have a matrix of orthogonal steel members lend themselves well to Revit. The 3D aspects in these cases definitely make it easier to visualize what's going on. Start throwing a bunch of skewed members in the mix, and Revit starts losing its appeal.
Worksharing is cool once you understand it and get a proper system established with your coworkers. ie, you need to make sure you're working on different areas of the structure. On the same note, worksharing is required in Revit since all sheets are held within a master file.
The biggest benefit is having a 3D model to "Wow" clients when they come in the office.
I honestly think the legal ramifications will limit the spread of BIM in the future but who knows...I'm sure people said the same thing about AutoCad back in the day. Maybe steel fabricators will be less likely to sue over field issues caused by incorrectly located elements they import from Revit.
Some objects are easier to change, such as spread footings or wall footings. You just type in the width dimension and it redraws the foundation for you.
Some industrial applications where you have a matrix of orthogonal steel members lend themselves well to Revit. The 3D aspects in these cases definitely make it easier to visualize what's going on. Start throwing a bunch of skewed members in the mix, and Revit starts losing its appeal.
Worksharing is cool once you understand it and get a proper system established with your coworkers. ie, you need to make sure you're working on different areas of the structure. On the same note, worksharing is required in Revit since all sheets are held within a master file.
The biggest benefit is having a 3D model to "Wow" clients when they come in the office.
I honestly think the legal ramifications will limit the spread of BIM in the future but who knows...I'm sure people said the same thing about AutoCad back in the day. Maybe steel fabricators will be less likely to sue over field issues caused by incorrectly located elements they import from Revit.
share4learn
Civil/Environmental
I'm must Revit Structure and Robot Milenium for job seeking. Does anybody have "extension 4 revit" to import/export files into robot and revit ?
To download these extensions on it is obligatory to be a "Autodesk Subscriber Customer". It is imposible for a job seeker like me!
Thank you.
To download these extensions on it is obligatory to be a "Autodesk Subscriber Customer". It is imposible for a job seeker like me!
Thank you.
I have revit in the back of my mind but at present only use autocad Lt 2006 i.e. do mainly industrial/warehousing type work but would like to enter into 3d. Can anyone briefly tell me if revit would have any advantages for me ? Also how does one learn to use it and how is the learning curve for revit ?
The majority of my projects are for one and two story projects. It's difficult for me to justify switching from AutoCAD 2008 to Revit just to "wow" my clients with a 3D model. At least for now. The software people are doing a hard sell to get everyone to buy into the BIM scenario.
For those using Revit, how much of the work is performed by an engineer instead of a CAD tech?
For those using Revit, how much of the work is performed by an engineer instead of a CAD tech?
DonPhillips
Structural
The reason to eventually switch is not for the 3D but because that is where CAD is heading. From what I have seen, because your model is in 3D, sections and elevations are generated while creating the plan elements. And schedules are generated as well. If properly set up, the time to go from schematic design to construction documents should be reduced plus you can easily share models across disciplines. I cannot wait to get a free week to install Revit MEP to see it in action.
Don Phillips
Don Phillips
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