Puddle Flanges--Combining piping penetration together 1

[cjabhijit]

Hi All,

I have dyke wall & we are running 4 lines bunched & running together however, I am not sure whether we can have combined penetrations through 300mm thick wall considering required sleeves & puddle flanges?

I do not think so still want to confirm.

I think we should run these lines separately because of the Dyke wall penetrations. This will give way for sleeve pipe, puddle flanges etc.

Is there any other way of having combined penetration? Has anybody done that where sleeves & puddle flange arrangement is must?

 

[LittleInch]

A drawing would help a lot here as would sizes of pipes, type of wall (concrete? brick? earth?)

you can either create an oblong hole and then have a single plate with multiple entries or space out the penetrations.

Is this an new wall being built at the same time or an existing wall?

What is the dyke containing? will it be always liquid or is it a tank bund? What are fire requirements?

You can do most things, but which one is best in your circumstances is very difficult to say with the information provided so far.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[cjabhijit]

Thanks for the quick reply LittleInch.

Pls refer attached sketch for more info.

Thanks & Regards,
Abhijit

 

[racookpe1978]

to prevent leakage around each separate hole, as indicated above, a single long dyke plate is best. If separate small plates are tried, the water (trapped fluid) would simply be finding its way past the many divisions between the four separate plates.

However, if the four pipes would ever be at different temperatures or under different stresses (movement) as they move fluids in and out of the tank and the tank expands and contracts, then this movement needs to be anticipated and allowed for between the one single plate and the 4x different pipes penetrating it. This movement can be allowed for in the seals and joints, it just needs to be anticipated.

 

[MJCronin]

These people have been providing seals just for this purpose ..... for decades !

THUNDERLINE Link Seals.

http://www.pipelinesupplies.com/UserFiles/File/Pipeline Construction/Thunderline Link Seals.pdf

let us know about your final solution ....

MJCronin
Sr. Process Engineer

 

[cjabhijit]

racookpe1978 thanks for the guidance however, any rough sketch of what you have mentioned will be a great thing to understand this. My worry is does this arrangement is leak proof?

Thanks & Regards,
Abhijit

 

[chicopee]

The alternate method is to have the piping ran over the dike wall if its only 4' to 5' high.

 

[LittleInch]

The issue you need to determine is whether you can effectively anchor the pipes at this location. IF you can then you simply weld the pipes to the plate or use a puddle flange / anchor flange but all welded into one plate or cast in situ. See pictures below for what I mean.

However if your pipes need some flexibility to avoid overstress, then you need to use sleeves and then seal.

Note that in the buncefield tank farm fire, the seals through the bunds where sleeves were used failed after a few hours of exposure to fire and led to massive issues with leaking tank bunds and polluted fire water. Seals do not have the fire resistance that welded plates or concrete walls with embedded flanges have.

Not having any penetrations through a bund wall is better, but can create issues with drains.



Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[cjabhijit]

This is great help LittleInch, thanks for the same.

I see these separate penetrations for each line spaces out as per the requirement which possibly would be the best way to achieve the requirement & have minimum leakage issues in case of mishaps.

In our case we are going with sleeves to have flexibility. We will typically avoid anchors at penetrations.

I am amazed to get so much of help from this website. Thank you all who are contributing to this forum.

Thanks & Regards,
Abhijit