Piping Design Philosophy 4

[tapav]

I would like to know if there are any tips, guidelines or suggested books for the design of pipework. I am yet to find any sort of philosophy of where to place supports/guides and of what type, other than max distance between supports to meet code requirements.
The aim is to minimise loads on the nozzle connections at the either end of the line. which is approx 80m long and enough flexibility in the routing (i think). It contains HP steam so expansions will be fairly large.

any help would be appreciated

thomas

 

[C2it]

There are many books, ancient and recent on this subject, just try googling. However, you should employ a decent stress engineer to deal with your HP steam system, since a failure can be catastrophic.

 

[pennpiper]

tapav,
Go here

http://pipingdesigners.com/Training.htm

and read Section III and IV.
This will give you a start, but you should also follow the advice from "C2it" to find a good Pipe Stress Engineer.

 

[tapav]

..If only i had thought of googling a book earlier... yes there are many, just all i have read do not have philosopies of placing a support, of what type and what to do to eleviate stresses. I think I can sufficiently detect when the computer beeps at me to let me know of high stress levels!! Some constructive suggestions might help.

 

[tapav]

Thanks pennpiper. We have good piping stress engineers, who will no doubt check my work. They have much experience and seem to rely on instinct, which unfortunately I am yet to gain.

 

[TTW2]

Hi tapav, when I look at support placement I usually consider deflection and stresses in the pipe, as I am sure you have. Currently we are designing a pipe route of 500nb steel pipe and the acceptable deflection gives a maximum distance between supports of about 8m. For gas pipes I have used the piping calculations manual. Not to sure about support placement in this book. My advice use your best engineering judgment.

 

[tapav]

TTW2.. yes I have used my 'eng. judgement' and have eventually reduced the forces on the nozzles sufficiently. I found that transferring the expansions away from the nozzle area into a part with more flexiblity helped.
Just seems strange that trial and error is the best way to proceed, especially when each analysis takes a while.
I have also studied other cases and each design strategy seems to differ. I wish it to be the optimum design and dont see any other way than putting in alot of unnessary hours to just try which is best.

 

[BigInch]

As you get better, the hours on the learning curve will hopefully go down.

**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world’s energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies)

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

 

[JohnBreen]

tapav.

Have a look at this old Eng-Tips Thread:

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=195028&page=5

Go here:

http://www.azpiping.com/pipingdesignerscom-training-seminar/

Download the papers especially those by James O. Pennock
(e.g., Pipe Supports - Part 1 and Part 2. By: James O. Pennock)

Next: these are free downloads. Get them and read them. It is a start.

Anvil - Pipe Hanger Design

http://www.anvilintl.com/db/catalogs/Pipe_Hanger_Design-07.pdf

ASME Piping Design Course Notes:

http://www.pipingdesigners.com/downloads/process plant piping overview.pdf

Liquid Process Piping (US Army)

http://140.194.76.129/publications/eng-manuals/em1110-1-4008/entire.pdf

...and for the above
Change One:

http://140.194.76.129/publications/eng-manuals/em1110-1-4008/change1.pdf

Errata Sheet:

http://140.194.76.129/publications/eng-manuals/em1110-1-4008/errata1.pdf

Los Alamos Nation Laboratory - ASME B31.3 Process Piping Guide

http://engstandards.lanl.gov/esm/pressure_safety/process_piping_guide_R2.pdf

American Lifelines Alliance
Seismic Design and Retrofit of Piping Systems

http://www.americanlifelinesalliance.org/pdf/Seismic_Design_and_Retrofit_of_Piping_Systems.pdf

Look at this:

http://www.projectsmonitor.com/detailnews.asp?newsid=6894

Books for Sale:

ASME _ Process Piping: The Complete Guide to ASME B31.3, Third Edition, Dr. Charles Becht, IV.

http://catalog.asme.org/books/PrintBook/PPG3ED_Process_Piping.cfm

ASME - Pipe Stress Engineering,, L.C. Peng

http://catalog.asme.org/books/PrintBook/Pipe_Stress.cfm

CASTI - Guidebook to ASME B31.3 Process Piping (Fifth edition), ISBN: 0071364714, by Glynn E. Woods, and Roy B. Baguley

http://iron.casti.ca/titanium/store/books/view_book/15

Pipe Supports - Part 1 and Part 2. By: James O. Pennock

The Piping Guide: For the Design and Drafting of Industrial Piping Systems, ByDavid R. Sherwood Dennis J. Whistance

Out of Print Books - Used Book Sites:
(NOTE: out-of-print books can be expensive and nearly all can be found on the Internet "file sharing Sites". Don't pay a lot of money for out-of-print books.)

Kellogg - Design of Piping Systems

Tube Turns - Piping Engineering (This book has the important "papers" by A.R.C.Markl)

Speilvogle - Piping Calculations Simplified (1955)

Piping and Pipe Support Systems: Design and Engineering
Paul R. Smith T. Van Laan

Piping Design Handbook, By John J. McKetta

There is a lot of guidance out there if you look for it.

Regards, John.

 

[JohnBreen]

..........and do not look for a quick answer to your question. You will have to work at it an "do your homework".

John

 

[TTW2]

Tapav I wouldn't say it was trial and error as such. This is the fun and enjoyment of engineering (I think anyway). It sounds as though you have a good understanding of what you are doing so you will succeed. As one of the other post said these things will get quicker over time. You will also develop your own methods of best practice etc as your experience grows. It seems to me you are starting out exactly as you should be. And as most others have.

Good luck and enjoy!

 

[tapav]

Thank you for the head start, especially John. I'm sure many others will also benefit from those links. You'll be pleased to know, I have met all code requirements and the computer has stopped beeping at me! So now I move onto optimising the design.

Cheers, Pav.