Physical and Mechanical Properties for A360-F & A380-F Aluminum Alloy Die Castings??? 1

[WKTaylor]

WKTaylor (Aeronautics)
(OP)
31 Jul 19 19:41
Call-to-'ALL'...

Conventional resources do not provide insight into physical or mechanical properties for these alloys.

Original die Casting spec for these alloys is QQ-A-591 [similar to ASTM B85].

Cast parts are NOT Heat treated [F = 'as cast']

The base/procurement specs only list FTu & FTy... no other values for mechanical... and NO useful physical properties [IE: service temperatures, corrosion potential, conductivity, etc].

Anyone aware of source for definitive/authoritative physical/mechanical properties for these alloys?
Regards, Wil Taylor

o Trust - But Verify!
o We believe to be true what we prefer to be true. [Unknown]
o For those who believe, no proof is required; for those who cannot believe, no proof is possible. [variation,Stuart Chase]
o Unfortunately, in science what You 'believe' is irrelevant. ["Orion", Homebuiltairplanes.com forum]

 

[MintJulep]

Have you rummaged around

https://www.aluminum.org/

yet?

This document might contain something of interest.

https://pinmfgco.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Alloy-Data.pdf

At the very least it has a table cross referencing to other standards.

 

[3DDave]

Not sure if this is close enough; I Googled the UNS per Table IV for A360-F and got

http://www.matweb.com/search/datasheet.aspx?matguid=87a0d0817ebd44008a967cbf3e9cd378&ckck=1

Edit: There is a link on that page to the sources for the info and a link to the A380-F properties.

 

[WKTaylor]

A360-F & A380-F Aluminum Alloy Die Castings...

The Aluminum Association - 'NO-GO info'...
Aluminum Standards & Data
Aluminum Design Manual
Standards For Aluminum Sand and Permanent Mold Castings

MATWEB has some [limited] values tabulated for these casting alloys, but this is informative not definitive [such as MIL-HDBK-5, MMPDS, etc]... and info such as compression, pin-bearing, etc is NA.

I am finding references that state these alloys are 'non-structural' and were useful for casting complex shapes with good quality surface-finishes... but with low-quality/inconsistent metallurgy and notable porosity.

NOW I wonder why we have integral tank access doors made from [either of] these non-structural alloys... in-lieu-of structural alloys A356.0-T6 or A357.0-T6 for more-consistent mechanical/physical/casting-quality properties... and probably better over-all corrosion resistance.

Regards, Wil Taylor

o Trust - But Verify!
o We believe to be true what we prefer to be true. [Unknown]
o For those who believe, no proof is required; for those who cannot believe, no proof is possible. [variation,Stuart Chase]
o Unfortunately, in science what You 'believe' is irrelevant. ["Orion", Homebuiltairplanes.com forum]

 

[btrueblood]

" integral tank access doors"

Those aren't very big, are they? I thought there were size limits on die cast alum. parts due to difficulties in getting good mold filling. The crappier properties of the "better mold filling" alloys in the die casting literature is due to the addition of zinc and/or higher silicon, both of which cause problems with porosity and structural properties as you've noted (due to volatility of both I guess?)

 

[swall]

Wil--If you can find a copy, the hard cover book, "Casting" by Kaiser Aluminum is an excellent resource for room temperature mechanical properties,elevated temperature mechanical properties and physical properties of most cast aluminum alloys including die castings. Mechanical properties for die castings are usually stated as "typical properties". I was told by a die casting expert that you design to 80% of typical properties in lieu of guaranteed minimum properties. The published "typical properties" are derived from separately cast test bars, as the thin walls of die castings and porous center do not make for sound specimens if you attempt to machine a test bar from a casting. I would disagree with the statement that die castings are non structural items. Many automotive structural components, like bell housings and transfer case housings have been successfully made from die castings, both aluminum and magnesium. The Chevrolet Vega engine block was die cast from 390 aluminum alloy. Another source for data would be the producers of aluminum foundry ingot, such as USCO, Apex and Wabash. Probably the easiest way to get a hold of that data would be to work through a die caster.

 

[WKTaylor]

swall... my corporate library had copy ~1965. Requested it. Are You aware of later any edition(s)?

Regards, Wil Taylor

o Trust - But Verify!
o We believe to be true what we prefer to be true. [Unknown]
o For those who believe, no proof is required; for those who cannot believe, no proof is possible. [variation,Stuart Chase]
o Unfortunately, in science what You 'believe' is irrelevant. ["Orion", Homebuiltairplanes.com forum]

 

[swall]

I have 3rd edition, copyright 1974.

 

[WKTaylor]

Googled CASTING - Kaiser Aluminum and stumbled-over 3-Edition ~1974 [Amazon] cheap.

Regards, Wil Taylor

o Trust - But Verify!
o We believe to be true what we prefer to be true. [Unknown]
o For those who believe, no proof is required; for those who cannot believe, no proof is possible. [variation,Stuart Chase]
o Unfortunately, in science what You 'believe' is irrelevant. ["Orion", Homebuiltairplanes.com forum]

 

[swall]

That is great. When I first started my career in 1972, lots of handbooks like that were available from the metals producers either free or for a nominal price. Good to see you can still find them.

 

[WKTaylor]

swall... DANG... YEP...

I also miss the free stuff that vendors published and widely distributed. Seems that era is over... probably due to legal-beagles of the 'new' companies that bought-out most of these 'old-name' companies...

Alcoa produced 'white papers' on most of the new wrought alloys/tempers/forms being advanced/promoted in the 1980s/1990s... that are common now-days. I was a on their mailing list. Material and part vendors had great sample-stuff, also... I have many beaten-up/taped-up/patched-up fastener catalogs/manuals from Voishan, Cherry, Huck, Hi-Shear, Monogram, JO King, etc that have proven invaluable thru the decades.

Fortunately, I've acquired [was-given/copied/purloined/etc] numerous design/analysis manuals from major companies, thru the years.

This 'library/collection' was proven to be priceless, especially when I was a field-service engineer in far-PACAF.

Grrrrrrr.... In some instances, my 'best stuff' has often 'disappeared' from my library shelves and sample boxes 'in-the-night'...

I've had 2 of the massive/orange Voishan fastener catalogs stolen from my shelves. Thank God I was able to obtain a 'like-new Voishan orange monster' catalog before all of those were depleted.

NOTE.
The one rip-off from my collection... that still gets p*sses-me-off to this day... is when a contracted-stress guy was laid-off 'suddenly' and kept all of my 'sample cards' for various fiberglass cloth cuttings representative of the major weaves/textures/styles listed in MIL-Y-1140. Show-N-tell value of these cloth samples was phenomenal.

Regards, Wil Taylor

o Trust - But Verify!
o We believe to be true what we prefer to be true. [Unknown]
o For those who believe, no proof is required; for those who cannot believe, no proof is possible. [variation,Stuart Chase]
o Unfortunately, in science what You 'believe' is irrelevant. ["Orion", Homebuiltairplanes.com forum]

 

[Cedarloo]

I am always visiting MakeItFrom.com when need to find out about any material properties. They offer a good comparison on A360 vs A380