saaj786ned
Structural
I am appearing for the PE ( Civil ) exam with Structural as my depth. Any suggestions and tips on how I should approach my exam?. I have a Lindberg CERM and NCEES problems.
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PE EXAMS
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abusementpark
Structural
If you can get your hands on the Testmasters notes and work problems, that would be pretty helpful. CERM is more of a reference. Definitely focus on the NCEES problems. Those are the most accurate representation of what the test will be like. There are some older NCEES problems from 2008 floating around the internet that would be worth acquiring.
Follow the test outline closely and make sure you don't waste time studying anything that won't be on the test.
Follow the test outline closely and make sure you don't waste time studying anything that won't be on the test.
Good morning saaj786ned,
It's been some time since I sat for my PE and SE with the format having changed since then, but paying attention to good test taking practice is your second most important consideration (#1 is know the material).
No magic here, just review the entire test section first doing the problems you can solve most quickly first then moving on to those taking more time to solve and finishing with those taking the most time or where you have the least certainty. Bring only references with which you are most familiar; you won't have the time to be rifling through something new or trying to learn. Become familiar with your text example problems. You'll be surprised how many of the problems you'll be asked to solve that are nearly identical to those in the texts (other than swapping around of some load values). The examples will help you as road maps to the solutions. Arrive early to the testing location, stay calm and don't be discouraged if at the end you feel that you just didn't have enough time. The test format pretty much dictates that you will be pressed for time. Also check with administering agency what tools/materials you will be permitted to have for use and in particular what specific calculators are permitted. I actually had mine confiscated for about the first hour of my SE exam until they concluded it wasn't one of the excluded types....not a good way to start the morning.
Best of luck,
Michel
It's been some time since I sat for my PE and SE with the format having changed since then, but paying attention to good test taking practice is your second most important consideration (#1 is know the material).
No magic here, just review the entire test section first doing the problems you can solve most quickly first then moving on to those taking more time to solve and finishing with those taking the most time or where you have the least certainty. Bring only references with which you are most familiar; you won't have the time to be rifling through something new or trying to learn. Become familiar with your text example problems. You'll be surprised how many of the problems you'll be asked to solve that are nearly identical to those in the texts (other than swapping around of some load values). The examples will help you as road maps to the solutions. Arrive early to the testing location, stay calm and don't be discouraged if at the end you feel that you just didn't have enough time. The test format pretty much dictates that you will be pressed for time. Also check with administering agency what tools/materials you will be permitted to have for use and in particular what specific calculators are permitted. I actually had mine confiscated for about the first hour of my SE exam until they concluded it wasn't one of the excluded types....not a good way to start the morning.
Best of luck,
Michel
I think the format is the same as when I took it.
I took Civil morning and Structural depth...I still regret not taking the SE under the old format!
I have never done and civil design work so the morning was more difficult than the afternoon. I was in the CERM early and often for the morning so learning where the material is in that book is important. So at least read through the CERM.
As someone else mentioned, the NCEES practice problems are the exact same style of problems that appear on the test. In fact, if I recall, some are the EXACT same problems. They are short & sweet for the most part with no trickery as some will suggest.
I recall studying some "6 minute" problems or something like that and they were ten times more in depth than the actual test problems.
IMO, if you have done structural design work and code research, the afternoon structural session is not very difficult.
I took Civil morning and Structural depth...I still regret not taking the SE under the old format!
I have never done and civil design work so the morning was more difficult than the afternoon. I was in the CERM early and often for the morning so learning where the material is in that book is important. So at least read through the CERM.
As someone else mentioned, the NCEES practice problems are the exact same style of problems that appear on the test. In fact, if I recall, some are the EXACT same problems. They are short & sweet for the most part with no trickery as some will suggest.
I recall studying some "6 minute" problems or something like that and they were ten times more in depth than the actual test problems.
IMO, if you have done structural design work and code research, the afternoon structural session is not very difficult.
TXStructural
Structural
I can speak only to the old SE exam. Put tabs in your references (they come in handy in practice.) Do not take books with which you are not familiar; searching for the answer will make you run out of time. Pace yourself, and avoid searching for an answer in a subject that you simply do not know (in the old SE exam, the example is AASHTO bridge questions if you are a building designer). Mark those questions and come back to them if you have time. You won't have time. (I take tests very quickly, but ran out of time because of this.)
If you design, and understand ASCE 7, you will likely not have a problem as long as you are prepared (rested, fed, have reviewed the required references...)
If you design, and understand ASCE 7, you will likely not have a problem as long as you are prepared (rested, fed, have reviewed the required references...)
I wish I could tell you there is a magic bullet...but there isn't. You need to put the time in.
You can get by the morning section with the CERM but you still need to invest the time into it. Make sure you understand the basics of the other disciplines...understand the 2-3 major piping equations, understand quantity takeoff and scheduling, understand surveying and know where/how to identify the terms for curves, etc. The morning is easy with enough time spent learning these basics. You may even have to get a couple of secondary references to supplement the CERM...I did because there were things that were explained in ways I couldn't understand in that book and I needed to find a reference that broke them down differently for me.
The afternoon is a little trickier but again, investing the time into it is what will make it or break it for you. Yes, practice problems are good...but if you don't understand the theories and codes they reference then no amount of problems will help you. I would even challenge you to just read the material codes and especially ASCE 7. You will find there are a lot of little facets in those books you don't normally get into in practice but become excellent test questions. Again though...time is critical. Take the time to tab out each book and know where to go for things. Take time to create your own notes and cheat sheets and get them assembled to where you know what to do.
I recently passed both the PE - Civil/Structural and SE...you just need to put the time into learning these things.
The good news for you is that I felt the civil/structural PE morning was slanted heavily to structural. I am assuming this is because the structural topics tend to be more difficult to comprehend (unless you use them everyday) and require more math/statics/mechanics than some of the more basic concepts of the other disciplines. Couple that with the fact that most of the geotechnical topics are centered around things structurals use a lot and it helped tremendously! In fact, I was almost 3/4 of the way through the test before I used any reference that wasn't structural or geotechnical related!
PE, SE
Eastern United States
"If a builder builds a house for someone, and does not construct it properly, and the house which he built falls in and kills its owner, then that builder shall be put to death!"
~Code of Hammurabi
You can get by the morning section with the CERM but you still need to invest the time into it. Make sure you understand the basics of the other disciplines...understand the 2-3 major piping equations, understand quantity takeoff and scheduling, understand surveying and know where/how to identify the terms for curves, etc. The morning is easy with enough time spent learning these basics. You may even have to get a couple of secondary references to supplement the CERM...I did because there were things that were explained in ways I couldn't understand in that book and I needed to find a reference that broke them down differently for me.
The afternoon is a little trickier but again, investing the time into it is what will make it or break it for you. Yes, practice problems are good...but if you don't understand the theories and codes they reference then no amount of problems will help you. I would even challenge you to just read the material codes and especially ASCE 7. You will find there are a lot of little facets in those books you don't normally get into in practice but become excellent test questions. Again though...time is critical. Take the time to tab out each book and know where to go for things. Take time to create your own notes and cheat sheets and get them assembled to where you know what to do.
I recently passed both the PE - Civil/Structural and SE...you just need to put the time into learning these things.
The good news for you is that I felt the civil/structural PE morning was slanted heavily to structural. I am assuming this is because the structural topics tend to be more difficult to comprehend (unless you use them everyday) and require more math/statics/mechanics than some of the more basic concepts of the other disciplines. Couple that with the fact that most of the geotechnical topics are centered around things structurals use a lot and it helped tremendously! In fact, I was almost 3/4 of the way through the test before I used any reference that wasn't structural or geotechnical related!
PE, SE
Eastern United States
"If a builder builds a house for someone, and does not construct it properly, and the house which he built falls in and kills its owner, then that builder shall be put to death!"
~Code of Hammurabi
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saaj786ned
Structural
I thank you all for your Great input in this thread. Some of the fellow engineers told me to take all of the codes and some books in the exam. The PE( STRUCTURAL ) afternoon problems doesn't seemd to be that complicated( NCEES SAMPLE PROBLEMS). What are your thoughts on this? Kylesito, I appreciate your PE Exam experience sharing and advice. Do you suggest taking all of the codes in the exam?. There are like nine Codes and refrence books. Is there a way to get it online or a PDF copy?
First off, the NCEES Sample problems were very simplistic compared to the real exam problems from my experience and were great confidence builders, but pretty dissappointing in their ability to prepare me, in hindsight. You will find problems on the exam that you have never seen...in other words you have to know your references and how to problem solve on the fly. You learn this by doing problems of every type and make, thumbing through your references. By the time you walk in there, your references should be well worn. And like others, I can speak only of my experience with the one day exam from days of old. The PE is a test of knowledge. The questions are formulated so that "quick reference" geeks will flounder and fail. Know your stuff, inside and out. Note, I did not say "know where stuff is at so you can thumb to it and learn it during the test". I failed my first PE because I trusted a 1/2" thick quick reference study guide that I thought would coast me on to success.
I took the test several times, I will admit, and can say that the reason you see so many varied answers (it was easy!, it was hard! the study questions were on/ were not on the test) is because every test is obviously different from year to year. Some guys walk in and the test is simple span beam free bodies, or "define cantilever retaining wall". Others are "find the capacity of a beam under cyclic loading on a 4 lane bridge in Seismic category D". Some tests are heavy on seismic and bridge. Others on wood. It just varies.
I took the test several times, I will admit, and can say that the reason you see so many varied answers (it was easy!, it was hard! the study questions were on/ were not on the test) is because every test is obviously different from year to year. Some guys walk in and the test is simple span beam free bodies, or "define cantilever retaining wall". Others are "find the capacity of a beam under cyclic loading on a 4 lane bridge in Seismic category D". Some tests are heavy on seismic and bridge. Others on wood. It just varies.
I, like bigmig, have also made a hobby out of taking these exams. I said I passed the PE Civil-Structural the first try but I left out the fact that I also failed the SE 1 a couple times before that! Thankfully, the 16 hr SE seemed much more practical and it only took me two tries on that one. But by then, I had probably seen every topic that could be covered and have quite a collection of the NCEES test pencils to show for it. He is right though...there is no consistency between tests and you may be close to passing once and come back and have all brand new topics to deal with!
Anyway...
YES, you definately need to take the codes in. Sorry, it sucks but you'll need them. They say the test isn't a "code" test but in my experience it relies pretty heavily on them. For the civil-structural test, if I was going to tell you there were any that weren't as important, they would probably be the lightgage steel and AISC 341. In both cases, you may have a question related to these but it would probably only be 1-2 total in the test. In my mind though, I wasn't going to let 1-2 questions stand in my way of passing...especially given that at least twice I was within 1 question of passing the SE1!
Not sure about PDF or online copies. Most of the groups that publish these are pretty closed to the secondary market and you won't even find many of them on amazon or similar websites. Your best bet is to try and work out a deal with your company. Maybe they will buy some and you will have to buy others. I probably invested between 500-1000 in extra materials and code books by the time I was done. Just part of the game. What really sucks is when they update the editions on you between tests and you have to reinvest the time bookmarking the new version from scratch!
Bigmig was right again when he mentioned about the reference manual. Remember, NCEES has access to these books too and they aren't going to layout every question just so you can turn to the right page. There is nothing wrong with using the SERM and CERM but you need to make sure you understand the concepts and really with the material codes you need to just sit down and go through them making notes and references for yourself. Once again...it's all about putting that time into it.
I would only use the NCEES problem book to get your timing down and get used to the way questions get asked. I was told once by a professor who had helped write the new test that the NCEES book is mostly comprised of questions that were either 1) statistically thrown out because everyone got them right or 2) were written in such a way that different codes/references/methods could contradict them. I would not equate confidence in that test with confidence in the real one.
PE, SE
Eastern United States
"If a builder builds a house for someone, and does not construct it properly, and the house which he built falls in and kills its owner, then that builder shall be put to death!"
~Code of Hammurabi
Anyway...
YES, you definately need to take the codes in. Sorry, it sucks but you'll need them. They say the test isn't a "code" test but in my experience it relies pretty heavily on them. For the civil-structural test, if I was going to tell you there were any that weren't as important, they would probably be the lightgage steel and AISC 341. In both cases, you may have a question related to these but it would probably only be 1-2 total in the test. In my mind though, I wasn't going to let 1-2 questions stand in my way of passing...especially given that at least twice I was within 1 question of passing the SE1!
Not sure about PDF or online copies. Most of the groups that publish these are pretty closed to the secondary market and you won't even find many of them on amazon or similar websites. Your best bet is to try and work out a deal with your company. Maybe they will buy some and you will have to buy others. I probably invested between 500-1000 in extra materials and code books by the time I was done. Just part of the game. What really sucks is when they update the editions on you between tests and you have to reinvest the time bookmarking the new version from scratch!
Bigmig was right again when he mentioned about the reference manual. Remember, NCEES has access to these books too and they aren't going to layout every question just so you can turn to the right page. There is nothing wrong with using the SERM and CERM but you need to make sure you understand the concepts and really with the material codes you need to just sit down and go through them making notes and references for yourself. Once again...it's all about putting that time into it.
I would only use the NCEES problem book to get your timing down and get used to the way questions get asked. I was told once by a professor who had helped write the new test that the NCEES book is mostly comprised of questions that were either 1) statistically thrown out because everyone got them right or 2) were written in such a way that different codes/references/methods could contradict them. I would not equate confidence in that test with confidence in the real one.
PE, SE
Eastern United States
"If a builder builds a house for someone, and does not construct it properly, and the house which he built falls in and kills its owner, then that builder shall be put to death!"
~Code of Hammurabi
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