Pattern Problem!

[barnam]

I have a pattern of a group, consisting of two features. I would like to add three additional features to this pattern. How can this be done? I know that I can just add another pattern, but that would be less efficient, right?





Thanks.


BM

 

[Mindripper]

It's hard to tell what your issue is, but it should be easy toincrease the number of elementsin a pattern, especially if it is a simple linear pattern with uniform spacing. I've had some problems with instability in angular patterns before, but it certainly isn't a global problem.


If your pattern change requires elements in two directions, it may need to be completely redone. If you are patterning a group and want to add an element to the group, the pattern usually has to be deleted, the group decompiled, then recompiled (with the added element) and the pattern recreated. NOTE: none of this teardown-and-rebuild crap is needed for any of these revisions in SolidWorks.

 

[barnam]

If your pattern change requires elements in two directions, it may need to be completely redone. If you are patterning a group and want to add an element to the group, the pattern usually has to be deleted, the group decompiled, then recompiled (with the added element) and the pattern recreated. NOTE: none of this teardown-and-rebuild crap is needed for any of these revisions in SolidWorks.

That's what I needed to know. And yeah, I've used SW and IV before and if I were using either package I would not be asking this question.


What boggles my mind is that ProE can do some advanced features that can't even be imagined in SW or IV, yet can't manage some simple tasks that are effortless in the other packages...


I ended up just creating a 2nd pattern with the other features in it, and linking the parameters to the toher pattern with relations.


BM

 

[Dell_Boy]

I believe that either WF3 of WF4 allows you to add new features into a group.

I know the ability to do this was far too long coming but a little planning does go a long way and if I had to make the choice again I would still have gone with the software that allows me to pattern in ways that SW users can only dream about.


DB

 

[PRStockhausen]

You can not add features to a group that has been patterned. You best bet is to pattern the new feature usingreference.

 

[barnam]

I believe that either WF3 of WF4 allows you to add new features into a group.

I know the ability to do this was far too long coming but a little planning does go a long way and if I had to make the choice again I would still have gone with the software that allows me to pattern in ways that SW users can only dream about.


DB

I what ways? Can Pro E patterna a patttern? Can you mirror a pattern? How about mirror a mirror, and then mirror that too? I can do that in both SW and IV and only dream about it in Pro E. I also wish I could do an axis pattern in two direction, like mid plane...That would be far more practical with symetrical parts than the fill pattern or theother bs that I've never had the need for. I can go all willy nilly and add/remove feautres from patterns and mirrors to my heart's content. that's a bit more productive and worth while than what Pro E offers in its pattern tool.


How about editign sketches with two clicks instead of seven. That's another dream I keep on having....


Pro E has its strengths in abilities that SW and IV can't touch, but those are abilities I've never had the need for, and I think 90% of mechanical designers need either. If you are doing a lot of complex surfaces for molding/castings or forgings, that's great, but I do sheet metal parts (no stampings) and I do machined parts. All prismatic simple geometry. For this, and in a compnay of 3 Pro E users, WF2 + Windchill = an excessive waste of time. Maybe WF3 is a bit better, we haven't upgraded yet, but I'm not expecting much.


ProE opens files quickly though.

BM

 

[Dell_Boy]

I what ways? Can Pro E patterna a patttern?

Yes it can (basic stuff)

A relatively simple example
View attachment 4279


threads are rotationally patterned around large central hole. These holes and notch above them are patterned to table along the length using one x dimension and two y dimensions (the notches are directly referenced to the large holes) which I believe cannot be done by SW.

Can you mirror a pattern?

Yes I can

View attachment 4280

How about mirror a mirror, and then mirror that too?

I have mirrored a mirror and reference patterned

View attachment 4281


Never tried to mirror that as well but probably could

I also wish I could do an axis pattern in two direction, like mid plane...

I don't understand what you are trying to do so I can't comment on this


It is fatal to assume that because YOU haven't worked out how to do it, means that it can't be done.

That would be far more practical with symetrical parts than the fill pattern or theother bs that I've never had the need for.

I have NEVER used a fill pattern. They look like they were designed for idiots who can't think for themselves and from what I have seen of other people's use of them they wouldn't give me the degree control that I wanted.





SW pattern to table in part mode is pathetic.

Can SW have different component instances in an assembly pattern-to-table eg. in ECAD where you have a line of different coloured LEDs (Oops last time I looked at SW, pattern-to-table didn't even exist in assembly mode so I guess it rules out this one) I use "ordinary" pattern-to-table in assembly mode all the time in fabricated steel structures comprising of welded steel sections spaced at irregular intervals with reference patterned children.

View attachment 4282

Does SW do a pattern to equation

View attachment 4283

Can SW swap pattern tables in the family table (In a previous job I used to use this very regularly when dealing with a common sheetmetal chassis making a family of products)

Seeing as you like to mirror stuff, can SW do a semi-dependant mirror of a pattern
View attachment 4284

or even semi-dependant mirrors of features

View attachment 4285

or how about impossible mirrors

View attachment 4286

or just for fun slightly tweak the mirrored mirror pattern above to make

View attachment 4287

Sorry, but the "easy" button just doesn't give you control to the nth degree that some users need

DB

Edited by: Dell_Boy

 

[barnam]

I'm impressed. So I tried to figure out how to pattern a patttern, and the only way I found to do it is to group the original pattern, which leads to the problem I originally posted.


So, I tried to see if I could pull it off. Could you explain to me please what is going on here? I extruded a hole, a smaller hole, radially patterned it about that hole, grouped the two features together, and tried to do a two direction pattern of the grouped features.

BM

 

[Mindripper]

This is a mystery to me. Perhaps you need to delete the original pattern (being careful not to delete the original features), then group the hole and it's screw hole pattern, then pattern the group. But I suspect you have tried this already.

 

[Dell_Boy]

Wow, that is a pretty pattern and obviously not what you want.

My best guess is that the small hole has somehow latched on to a wrong reference that totally stuffs up the patterning around the other large holes.

Other than that, we probably can't help you until you post your model.


DB

P.S. Sometimes it makes more sense to (dependant) copy a pattern than to group pattern it.

 

[super_puh]

and how fast can U make a drawing of this in pro/e (fully definited one)?????? not to mention if U need to make some editing later on, because every one can make patterns.


pro/e= more mouse travel and more clicks. What about workingby intuition?????


And yes I agree with barnam:



How about editign sketches with two clicks instead of seven. That's another dream I keep on having....


Pro E has its strengths in abilities that SW and IV can't touch, but those are abilities I've never had the need for, and I think 90% of mechanical designers need either.



Edited by: super_puh

 

[mjcole_ptc]

I'll reply later when I won't have my post get interupted by stupid browser problems it would be nice for MCAD to cache this page like when entering info or email on a website and being able to go back to it with out constanly CTRL+A ing with Notepad.

Group patterns 3 types
Feature
Group
Both

don't kind of pointless giving options that you can select only to have Pro/E dismiss your input.

Make the pattern's simplest group first and for dell boys modified instance of the Yellow Blue formerly mirrorable pattern you can do so with a 180

 

[mjcole_ptc]

Also WTF is with the new Adobe add? I thought your 3D PDF functionality was pretty cool but that Add is
Mad Annoying. I feel like I'm at a carnival when it starts playing and not in a good way.
I'll take the dude unrolling the plot any day over your stupid new add. I'm also probably less likely to buy your software now.

NOTE: If you refresh the page (make sure you don't have any thing typed in the response window at the time), You can avoid the Adobe Add and the more annoying music. Or click the mute button on the top right of the add.


Edited by: mjcole_ptc

 

[barnam]

WF2 can edit Definition of Sketches in 2 clicks instead of 7 what version are you on?

Mabye I'm going about this the long way. I have an Extrude feature- 1) Left Click Extrude2; 2) RMB Hold -> Edit Definition; 3) Click Placement on the Dashboard; 4) Click Edit; -> 5) Go all the way diagonally across the screen and select Sketch. Alright, that was 5 clicks, maybe it was seven in a sheet metal part (I work for a sheet metal company). Then to finish the sketch 1) Click the Check Mark; 2) click Ok; 3) click the checkmark on the dashboard. I must admit though, I really like the center click to end commands/select default options.


Sheetmetal part: 1) Left click First Wall; 2) RMB Hold -> Edit Definition; 3) Click Section; 4) Click Define; 5) Click Sketch


Maybe it is just five, don't know where I got seven from. But in IV and SW, it's Right click any feature (right clicking a feature automatically selects the feature, can be annoying sometimes though, SW select other is kind of stupid), click edit sketch. It's one click to exit a sketch.


BM

 

[Dell_Boy]

Then make a Surface Copy and pattern that with direction type and solidify it later

Well that is an "interesting" way of doing it but it doesn't sound fully bi-directionally modifiable". How well does it handle threads

Also WTF is with the new Adobe add?

Ads? What ads. I can't see any.

Perhaps you should try using Firefox for a far more pleasant browsing experience.

Mabye I'm going about this the long way

Identify the feature in the model tree (0 clicks)
left click the + symbol next to it (1 click)
Right click the sketch feature and drag down to edit definition (1 click)

You should now be in sketcher mode in just 2 clicks



DB

Edited by: Dell_Boy

 

[LOOregano]

Just for fun, I tried to model the same thing, and the identical scattering occurred. I tried changing the reference of the original smaller hole and changing from radial to linear, and also changing the pattern of the group of holes from directional to radial. All got effectively the same scattering. This was when I performed it in Wildfire 2.0. I also tried the very same thing in WF3.0 and it worked no matter how I tried it. An interesting thing, I tried opening the bad part in 3.0 and the pattern was still bad. I opened the edit feature, made sure everything was correct, and then selected ok. It was still scattered. Then I deleted the pattern and did the exact same radial pattern and wf 3.0 did it perfectly.

Conclusion: Either 2.0 is less intuitive and more finicky, or it has a glitch, because it seems to be tied to the versions.

Solution 1: Use wf 3.0 (...I guess they did make some improvements from 2-3.0...wonder what they did in 4.0, maybe more intuitive...I hope...)

Solution 2: Anyone know how to get this grouped kind of patterning a pattern to work in wf 2.0???

 

[LOOregano]

Sorry, I did not realize that there was 2 pages in this thread. I was referring to the Barnum's picture of the extruded square with the 4 large holes and 4 small holes patterned around each large whole with a separation angle of 90