Overworked to Death 2

[DonPE]

Wow. I thought I had it bad...

http://www.usatoday.com/money/world/2008-07-09-japan-overwork-case_N.htm

 

[MadMango]

Wow. Averaging 80hrs overtime is amazing, though I have pulled a few weeks, months of 60hr weeks. I would never consider doing it again. Do you suppose he was a micro-manager?


"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."

Have you read faq731-376 to make the be

 

[moltenmetal]

80 hrs OT/month is only 10 extra hours per week or 2 extra hrs per day. You'll find businesses where there's an unwritten rule that for engineers, 40 hrs really means 50, so this isn't all that unusual.

Is it "right"? Is it "over-work"? Depends on you- and on your compensation scheme.

If you're not getting a piece of the action, either via meaningful profit sharing, ownership, time in lieu or overtime pay, working consistently large chunks of O/T for free is an indication that you need your head examined. Why exactly are you doing it? What hole is there in your life that work is filling, to the point that you're willing to do it totally voluntarily? I suggest that there are a great many REAL charities which would truly benefit from your volunteerism- why volunteer for a profitable corporation?! Think of the people that businesses aren't employing because others are willing to work for free...

There's a difference between being a professional and being a sucker. A professional will put in some extra effort to see a project meet a deadline, or to learn something, or to fix their own mistakes. A professional also expects that their contribution will be respected, monetarily, or else it will surely be taken for granted and indeed later it will be expected!

 

[YoungTurk]

molten, you might want to check you math! Unless, of course, you are in a country with 8 week months

60 hour weeks do suck, and I'm lucky enough that a "long" week for me is rarely more than 50. That being said, it seems like a stretch to say 60 hour weeks could literally kill someone. If it could, we've got a few guys around here that would've been gone long ago.

 

[prohammy]

Contract Engineer - therefore every hour=more money......

Kevin

“It is a mathematical fact that fifty percent of all doctors graduate in the bottom half of their class." ~Author Unknown

"If two wrongs don't make a right, try three." ~Author Unknown

 

[moltenmetal]

D'oh! Yep, serious defective math there!

Sixty hour weeks DO suck! And if he'd been averaging 60 hour weeks for years, that sucks worse! Been there, done that- never again...

 

[MadMango]

Remember, the article states that is an "average", meaning he probably put in a few 70-80hr weeks in too. While the shear number of hours worked may not kill a normally healthy person, the accumulated effects of too little sleep, interrupted sleep, mental fatigue and general stress can.

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."

Have you read faq731-376 to make the be

 

[JaredS]

80 hours of overtime in one month

laughs

I pulled 60 hours of overtime in one week once. Yes, that is a 100 hour week.

I was working as a summer laborer for an asphalt company helping produce the asphalt. We split the production crew into two shifts a day and night crew. One week the day crew got really sick and so we would work from 6 pm until noon the next day. We did this Sunday through Thursday evening and then helped with Saturday paving working from 5 am until 3 pm. It was a long week but the paycheck was incredible.

 

[moltenmetal]

JaredS: 40 hours on an asphalt crew would be too much for me! You couldn't pay me enough...

 

[JaredS]

I paid for half my undergrad using money from the asphalt business. I love to bad mouth it but it is the only reason why I graduated without any debt.

 

[weeeds]

60, 70, 80 hrs per week?
Stress, interrupted sleep, mental fatigue?
Try working for yourself.
Many, many, many people do this all over the world on a regular basis.

 

[marks1080]

I'm glad I live in a country that has employment standards.

Yes, we all want more money, and OT usually accomplises that, but at the end of the day work is not your life.

 

[DonPhillips]

Keeping up with these forums, tax laws, meeting potential clients at after hours events, and reading to keep up with the industry. All this on top of a 40 to 50 hour billable week. Like Widla said. Why do it? So you can make your own decisions and not have to hear yourself say "not another idiotic memo from that moron."


Don Phillips

http://worthingtonengineering.com

 

[MechEng2005]

I managed a week that was 120 hours before... During installation of some machinery that HAD to be done for a "big league" customer. Not hard if you put in 12-13 hours per day of supervising installation/construction, 2-3 hours making drawings for new parts to replace mistakes, 1-2 hours on the phone to get parts made and arrange shipment. Throw an all-nighter at the end for set-up of things like flow/pressure control valves, electrical debugging, etc.

Definately leaves you hungary and tired though...

I think there is some reasonable expectations for overtime to be put in to meet deadlines as a professional. However, if it becomes consistant, it is a systematic problem and needs to be resolved (i.e. hire more people, allow longer schedules for design/fabrication/installation, etc). I don't have a problem spending extra time to resolve unforeseen issues. Overtime for poor planning by management does bug me though.

-- MechEng2005

 

[Comcokid]

The Japanese used to be known for their long work hours back in the 80's and 90'. However as reported in a study covered by CBS '60 minutes' in 2006, Americans are now working more than workers in Japan, or the rest of the world.

I can recall several times, where bad planning by management has resulted in weeks of unpaid overtime for the salaried (exempt) employees, like engineers. In one case, the houry-paid (non-exempt) technicians working with a group of engineers I was in ended up making more money that year than any of the engineers did because of their paid overtime.

 

[carnage1]

I recall before the dot com bust myself and two other very good techs would work 140 hrs in two weeks (one pay period) and then do two 40 hour weeks. the standard schedule was four tens, but we were known for getting more than four times the work done of the "average" tech so they were more than happy to allow us to work overtime as much as we wanted and simply would cut off other peoples overtime if the department was going to be above the magic number that was budgeted. Oddly I found that the 14 tens wasn't as bad for me as the 12 hour compressed workweek (three on four off four on three off 12.5 hrs a day) I worked at the job just previous to that one.

 

[ScottyUK]

Had a six week spell of 110hr weeks in the late 90's, paid OT too until someone realised that I was being paid more than the MD and my wages were capped. It wasn't a particularly good period and we were so tired that our work was suffering. After six weeks we enforced an overtime limit at 90 hours with a minimum one day off per week and work quality perked up enormously. I find it hard to believe that anyone was producing good work at the end of a 140 hr week - that's only 28 hours not working per week. Four hours per day to eat, sleep, wash, shop only serves to create exhausted workers who are a hazard to themselves and eveyone around them. A responsible employer wouldn't allow it, at least not in the hazardous industries. An employee who was motivated by something other than greed would recognise that too and wouldn't expose himself and his workmates to the risks.


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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!

 

[carnage1]

140 in two weeks Scotty, only 70ish per week. In Oregon your employer can't require you to work more than a 14 hr shift, so most employers wont allow it to avoid possible litigation. Oregon also requires 8 hrs between shifts.

 

[ScottyUK]

Oops, I misread that didn't I! My bad.

I doubt I would do such long hours now - the stupidity of youth, and an employer who took advantage of it.

Anything over about 70 - 80hrs / week justs lead to burnout, mistakes, and accidents. If people are working huge hours for anything other than a short period or in a crisis situation then the company needs more staff.

The EU brought out the 'Working Time Directive' a year or two ago but certain services and industries are exempt. Utilities is one of the exempt ones, and our employer tries to take advantage of that from time to time. Other exemptions apply to the emergency services and the armed forces. I think some medical staff might also be exempt but I'm not certain.



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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!

 

[HgTX]

I have found that being underworked and having to scrounge about for things to do is more demoralizing than being overworked with a clear directive. Your mileage may vary.

Hg

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