Operating Curves For generators 7

[jan63]

I want to draw operating curves for gen which will determine the max out put f the gen keeping in view the temperatures f stator and rotor and also the satbility limit of the gen is not crossed.Can some one give me an easy way as the books description is a lengthy one

 

[ScottyUK]

There isn't an 'easy way' as such, or not if you want the curve to be meaningful. I have a copy of what is without doubt the best document I've ever read on generator capability curves. It was written over thirty years ago by the CEGB and contains a remarkable level of detail that is rarely if ever discussed in modern texts. Does anyone know of a free file host which will accept a 12MB file? engineering.com seems limited to about 5MB or so.


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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!

 

[rmw]

Scotty,

Can you post the name or title of the document so we could do a search for it?

rmw

 

[majesus]

I'm thinking of rapidshare.

Or just zip it into two parts. I wouldn't mind having a copy as well Scotty.

Maj

 

[ScottyUK]

rmw,

It's a scan of a paper copy I was given by an old friend. It simply ain't out there on the net - I've looked long and hard for the CEGB archives. There are probably hundreds of top quality technical documents lurking in desk drawers and files belonging to retired CEGB engineers throughout the UK which one day will be lost forever because they are only in paper form.

OK, it's on rapidsahre for a while...

http://rapidshare.com/files/285572113/CEGB_Generator_Performance_Chart.pdf.html

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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!

 

[jan63]

I could not get it.Can it be sent through e-mail

 

[Hoxton]

I got it, took an age to download - perahps try again?

Fantasic document, i will have to dig my old design notes out, our system was a lot simpler (but perhaps not as accurate. As the documant says, if your concern is the lagging (overexcited) area, then it is quite simple, the leading area is a lot more complex.

 

[RRaghunath]

Scotty,
I too couldn't download the CEGB document.
'Rapidshare' has restrictions for free upload/downloads. 'Mediafire' is better I think.

 

[wolf39]

jan63:

The CEGB document is very detailed but the contents quite difficult to handle. Fortunately there is a far simpler but still very accurate version for the design of generator performance charts available. This is illustrated on page 20 in "Betriebsverhalten der Synchronmaschine" by Kurt Bonfert, published in 1962 by Springer-Verlag/Germany.

We have to consider two different versions of generator performance charts, one is valid for turbo generators (with cylindrical rotors) and one for salient pole machines (hydro generators). The difference lies in the values of the synchronous reactance. For hydro generators we have a direct axis synchronous reactance xd and a quadrature axis synchronous reactance xq (the xq value is about 60% to 70% of the xd value) whereas for turbo generators both values are about the same (xq = xd).

Let me know in case you have no access to the book mentioned above. I'll then try to draw up for you the two types of charts.

Scotty: Thanks for sharing with us a valuable part of your archive.

Regards

Wolf

http://WWW.HYDROPOWER-CONSULT.COM

 

[davidbeach]

Tried to download it and got

This file is neither allocated to a Premium Account, or a Collector's Account, and can therefore only be downloaded 10 times.

This limit is reached.

To download this file, the uploader either needs to transfer this file into his/her Collector's Account, or upload the file again. The file can later be moved to a Collector's Account. The uploader just needs to click the delete link of the file to get further information.

.

Scotty, I believe you have an email address for me, could you email it?

 

[ScottyUK]

Wolf - no problem at all. Documents like that deserve to be shared, otherwise what is the point in me saving them from the bin?


David,

On it's way.


Everyone else - I'll try to find a better file host. My ADSL line has very poor uplink speed so I'd appreciate it if any can identify a decent file host as Rapidshare seems to have a few problems. Took forever to upload this morning!


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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!

 

[ScottyUK]

My home internet connection sucks. Stuggling to email this out to you David but will try again later. Might have another option when I get to work - will find out tomorrow.


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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!

 

[alehman]

Scotty,
If you can't get it to work let me know. I can put in on our company's FTP server for a while.

Alan
----
"It’s always fun to do the impossible." - Walt Disney

 

[edison123]

To do some heavy lifting for Scotty (thx Scotty), I have uploaded the CEGB file in two parts of about 6 GB each here. You may need to sign up for a free a/c. Lemme know if it worked.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/20296458/CEGB-Generator-Performance-Chart-Pages-1-to-31

http://www.scribd.com/doc/20296596/CEGB-Generator-Performance-Chart-Pages-32-to-63

Muthu

http://www.edison.co.in

 

[edison123]

Wolf, any chance you can UPLOAD that Kurt Bonfert's book and post a linky here ? ...

with translation, of course ....

Muthu

http://www.edison.co.in

 

[edison123]

Sorry about that all caps. I blame it entirely on the keyboard genie.

Muthu

http://www.edison.co.in

 

[ScottyUK]

Edison,

Please tell me you meant 6MB each and you haven't increased the size by 10³. [LOL]

Thanks to you and to Alan for the offer.


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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!

 

[edison123]

Scotty, What's a few MB (or GB) between friends ?

Muthu

http://www.edison.co.in

 

[wolf39]

I'm hesitant to upload the book (or parts of it) because of copyright reasons. Also, a translation from German to English may be a bit time consuming. If there is enough interest, however, I'll design two example charts (one for hydro, one for turbo) and attach them to a post.

Regards

Wolf

http://WWW.HYDROPOWER-CONSULT.COM

 

[ScottyUK]

Hi Wolf,

Yes, I'd be interested in seeing them, especially if you can show the steps in producing them. I know a former colleague who would also be very interested although he's not a member here.


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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!