NX - big failure 13

[NikonF6]

a new plane is created, say 80 deg to x-y plane, and passing through x-axis (zero distance form x-axis).
A sketch is made in that new plane.
Later on the plane is rotated, say 20 deg, more from x-y plane, so it pass x-z plane.
The sketch flips without role, all other things connected to that sketch gone too, ...


Resultant vector = All works, months spent, has to be redone, business lost due to time, ...

This additional rotation should be very simple operation within any software, however NX canNOT do it.
No further comment needed.

 

[Xwheelguy]

The version of NX might be of some help.....

Tim Flater
NX Designer
NX 9.0.2.5 Win7 Pro x64 SP1
Intel Xeon 2.53 GHz 6GB RAM
NVIDIA Quadro 4000 2GB

 

[JohnRBaker]

Could you provide a simple example where you're seeing this behavior as it's possible that using an alternate constraint scheme might make your model more resistant to something that's actually a lot more common when dealing with 3D software than you might think? Anyone who understands how trig functions are used when working with angles knows that strange things can happen as you pass thru 90° when editing an angular parameter.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Digital Factory
Cypress, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[NikonF6]

It is NX 7.5

 

[NikonF6]

John, we did anything possible with constraints, just because we were aware of this possible problem, We did some work on small sketches, fixing entities, cross-constraining to other entities from other sketches, ... Nothing can stop NX from messing up in this turning.

You can make such plane and some polygon on it quickly, make additional turn and you will see a big mess. The whole point is that it should be a simple and robust operation, but is not.

 

[PrintScaffold]

NikonF6,

Out of curiosity I made a test on a version 7.5 involving "such plane and some polygon on it quickly", and did not find any errors. Obviously it does not mean problem does not exist, but we need more information from you to replicate it.

Meanwhile I can direct your attention to the following point. You mentioned that you put sketch on a plane and then rotated that plane. I personally would discourage you from putting skecth on a plane, let alone rotating one. What I recommend is to create an offset CSYS which would rotate against axis of the original CSYS and put sketch on it. This well might improve things for you.

http://www.cadroad.com

 

[PrintScaffold]

Also, in NX you can work around pretty much everything. See the attached file.

www.cadroad.com

 

[NikonF6]

Print
it is not the matter what you did, no array and multiply sketches. You just did a copy. It is not the way to go...

 

[PrintScaffold]

NikonF6,

Not the way to go where? You didn't explain us.

How does the hint with the offset CSYS look to you? Can it help? If you haven't used offset CSYS before, mind that if supports not only offset but rotation as well.

http://www.cadroad.com

 

[NikonF6]

John it might help. But if will end-up, that way, with so many coordinate systems covering each other. The plane can be moved and so many of them is not a big problem. Many coordinate systems may also slow down the machine a lot. Note that sketches are extremely complex and large.

I am using one sketch to locate the second, then use the second as a datum, ....

I will try coordinate systems, but slim chance the things will improve.

 

[NikonF6]

Also changing sketches (any of them can be changed) happens all the time.

 

[NikonF6]

Print, it all you say works for simple things. Imagine c.500 lines more around what you posted here, all in one part, all interlocked from each other by dimensions and constrains, and anything might change later on.....

 

[PrintScaffold]

I can't comment or suggest any further because I have no idea about the task.

http://www.cadroad.com

 

[JohnRBaker]

Are you contending that you are NOT able to produce even ONE simple example, which you could share with us, showing how you are building your models and that would show us the behavior that you're speaking of?

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Digital Factory
Cypress, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[NikonF6]

John I am really sorry but cannot find time to make some example to the sketch I work in (and do not know how to insert pic here).
I did it with coordinate system rot. and sketch did not flip. My problem is now that for any my plane replacement I will have 3-planes and 3-axis.. Soooo many will be around. Dealing with all of them will ask for time I hardly can find. But looks it is the only way.
How to insert picture here?

 

[PrintScaffold]

My problem is now that for any my plane replacement I will have 3-planes and 3-axis.. Soooo many will be around. Dealing with all of them will ask for time I hardly can find.

You don't have to deal with 3 planes and 3 axis, because CSYS is a single entity. Otherwise, can't see much of a problem dealing with model entities. Do you use layers and reference sets? If you don't, you must urgently start to.

http://www.cadroad.com

 

[NikonF6]

Print
"You don't have to deal with 3 planes and 3 axis, because CSYS is a single entity. Otherwise, can't see much of a problem dealing with model entities. Do you use layers and reference sets? If you don't, you must urgently start to."

please say how long you are with unigraphics?
Are you working with John Baker?

John, do you agree with above?

 

[PrintScaffold]

Why you need to know the amount of time I spent with NX? I am not working with John.

CSYS is a single entity in some ways (modeling feature in a tree), and multiple entities (origin point, planes and axis) in another. That's quite a unique feature which can do you a lot of good if you make friendship with it.

http://www.cadroad.com

 

[JohnRBaker]

Visually, yes, a Datum CSYS consists of 3 planes, 3 axis and a point, but feature-wise, it's a single object (PrintScaffold was right about that).

As for you not finding the time to make a simple example part, well how badly do you really want help (you've already stated that you've lost months of work or was that just so much hyperbole)? Your original post reads like a RANT, what with the title you chose, "NX - big failure", and then your closing statement, "No further comment needed.", like you were not really expecting any help. If that was the case, why did you even waste your time posting anything at all? Eng-Tips is a site where people come to get and/or offer help, it's not for venting and then when you're offered help you get righteous about how you KNOW that there isn't a solution and when someone does provide you with one, you jump down his throat implying that he's somehow part of a conspiracy or something. If it's really true that you've spent months and it's affected your business, then I would be a bit more appreciative when someone offers you help, even if it requires a bit of extra work, or when someone actually DOES give you something that works.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Digital Factory
Cypress, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[NikonF6]

"As for you not finding the time to make a simple example part, well how badly do you really want help (you've already stated that you've lost months of work or was that just so much hyperbole)? Your original post reads like a RANT, what with the title you chose, "NX - big failure", and then your closing statement, "No further comment needed.", like you were not really expecting any help. If that was the case, why did you even waste your time posting anything at all? Eng-Tips is a site where people come to get and/or offer help, it's not for venting and then when you're offered help you get righteous about how you KNOW that there isn't a solution and when someone does provide you with one, you jump down his throat implying that he's somehow part of a conspiracy or something. If it's really true that you've spent months and it's affected your business, then I would be a bit more appreciative when someone offers you help, even if it requires a bit of extra work, or when someone actually DOES give you something that works. "

1. Flipping sketch shall not be a part of professional and high-end program. I expect from a such program to free me from software problems and my concentration should be on the engineering problems.
2. I am not professional internet guy with thousands of posts and hours, I am neither so familiar for the procedure to get a picture on this forum. I am looking to spend smallest possible amount of time on internet. as and I am looking for a bit of good help if can find.
3. I am very selective on accepting advices, especially when I sniff that a young is around. Their advices I do not need no matter good or bad.
4. Thank you for your advice about the coordinate system, it might works for me (it did not flip the sketch).