North Carolina power substations taken out by gunfire 16

[FacEngrPE]

https://www.foxnews.com/us/north-carolina-sheriff-says-intentional-vandalism-substations-caused-power-outages-40k-customers[/URL]]A North Carolina sheriff and power company official said "intentional vandalism" at substations has caused outages for about 40,000 customers expected to last longer than 24 hours

NC county announces curfew as nearly 40,000 customers remain without power after 2 substations damaged by gunfire; Tina Burnside, By Nicole Grether, Gloria Pazmino and Tina Burnside, CNN Updated 6:12 PM EST, Sun December 4, 2022

Current outages link

https://www.readync.gov/stay-informed/power-outages

and

https://outagemaps.duke-energy.com/#/current-outages/ncsc

Moore County Sheriff's Office Dec 4

 

[dik]

It doesn't matter if white, black, right, left, Jew, Muslim or Christian... they can all be fanatics...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[Just Some Nerd]

Nice to see that some among us have had the fortune of not encountering the accelerationist neo-nazis and ethno-nationalists who cream themselves at the idea of bringing about a full-blown race war.

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Why yes, I do in fact have no idea what I'm talking about

 

[fel3]

TugboatEng…

The Axis Fascists were actually Socialists, so left-wing not right-wing (I don't enough about Franco's version of Fascism to comment there). Benito Mussolini, the original Fascist leader, was an avowed Socialist and he ended up nationalizing something like 2/3 of the Italian economy. Alfred Rosenberg, the chief Nazi ideologue, was also an avowed Socialist and the Nazi Party advanced a mostly Socialist agenda. Adolf Hitler, though, took a somewhat less doctrinally "pure" approach to Socialism than did Mussolini. Hitler hated capitalists and capitalism just as much as he hated communists and communism. But, he made a deal with the key industrial leaders because he needed their support. The industrial leaders made a deal with Hitler to preserve their special position in the economy and because they thought they could control him. Hitler came out best in that deal, just like he did with the Army high command.

In the end, the Fascists had far more in common with the Communists than with the Capitalists. As for the Fascist's hatred of Communism, I have never seen a good explanation of it, but my own supposition is that Fascism was intensely nationalistic and the Fascist leaders probably felt threatened by Communism's internationalism. Well, perhaps also they didn't want any competition on the Dark Side of the Force.

Fred

============
"Is it the only lesson of history that mankind is unteachable?"
--Winston S. Churchill

 

[dik]

Sorry guy... I consider fascism to capitalism, in the same manner I equate communism to socialism. I think that's the way is generally considered.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[Just Some Nerd]

Nice to see that some among us have had the fortune of not encountering the accelerationist neo-nazis and ethno-nationalists who cream themselves at the idea of bringing about a full-blown race war.

I've changed my mood, it is not nice to see that we've apparently reached the level of "fascists are left wing"

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Why yes, I do in fact have no idea what I'm talking about

 

[TugboatEng]

Communism, fascism, socialism, progressivism are all authoritarian states. If they want to identify as left wing, then I will embrace rightwingism. It does bother me that they have co-opted liberalism.

The only thing these substation schemers have in common is anti-socialism. Maybe that does make them right wing.

 

[MortenA]

I think this discussion got side tracked? Its an engineering question if you need to consider sarbotage and what precausions to take - not so with the reason for sarbotage...

--- Best regards, Morten Andersen

 

[debodine]

MortenA is correct, the engineering aspects are for this forum, not so much the motivation as to Why it is a concern. I would think the engineering questions might include:

1. What is the definition of the threat? (Who and How and When, although I admit knowing the Why might help establish the Who and the How and When).
2. Based primarily on the How, how do we engineer solutions to provide necessary protection? These solutions must consider the normal engineering concerns: effectiveness, durability, maintaining legitimate maintenance access while denying unauthorized access, flexibility as the threat changes over time, cost (both installation and long-term maintenance), environmental impact, aesthetics for the local community, etc.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Sniper screens I would say would actually improve the aesthetics for the local community.

 

[cranky108]

So how do you prevent such an attack, short of building a fort around a substation?
The other thing, in most communities they don't like walls higher than 12 Ft, and with the minimum height of bus bar being 8.5 Ft, that does not leave a wall as covering much.

 

[1503-44]

Alistair is right. And a mound of dirt makes a shorter wall height. Many communities rather like the idea of building a grassy knoll, or berm if you will, around these kinds of things to hide as much of it as possible within a very natural setting.

The video from Practical Engineering's I posted above tells me that not EVERYTHING has to be behind fortress walls and that the really long lead, highly critical equipment isn't everywhere and can be pprotected locally with just a little bit of effort, if anybody was really interested in doing that. I'd classify most of it as "Cheap Insurance". Almost as cheap as dirt.

https://youtu.be/bPwY-FTqWxM

Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

 

[TugboatEng]

I was in Vegas the other week and this is what their substation looks like.

The problem isn't really people targeting substations in general, it's their rural location. People are more likely to misbehave if they think nobody is around.

 

[dik]

You really want to hide something that ugly...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[1503-44]

I had to locate a 10,000 kW compressor station in Princeton NJ in an area with $25M estates. We bought a big plot, used electric drives, limited noise to 70dB at the property line, built well back from the main road, built in a bit of a river valley, cut the hill to screen the pipe runs, put compressors inside a building, used the shop, warehouse and office as visual and noise screening and planted a tree line on the other side. You can only see it from the air. Got Princeton's planning approval on the first pass. Never happened previously. It can be done.

Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

UK we don't actually use berms to protect stuff aka sniper screens.

Trees get used a fair bit, or slatted fences inner city they are completely enclosed or under ground.

 

[cranky108]

Our structural engineer doesn't think his structures are ugly. So why do you?

We do have substations surrounded by berms. But honestly they seem to provide a cover for homeless to camp. Not a great idea.
We also have chain link covered barranca, but the substation guys hate them.
We have tried a wall, but it does not hide the substation very well.
Trees seem to give people a place to hide, like homeless, or allow a way for people to climb over the fence.

For lower voltage substations, the way to go seems to be using only pad mounted gear. But we can't do that with high voltage.

In a few areas, our substation is the best looking thing on the block. But that is not typical.

 

[kjoiner]

In a related story:

A man has been arrested in connection with PG&E transformers in California

https://www.yahoo.com/news/man-charged-blowing-pg-e-213820430.html

 

[JohnRBaker]

I'm just waiting for the conspiracies theories to start circulating since the person being charged in those Bay Area transformer attacks happens to work for a company which is owned by Amazon. You know, Jeff Bezos and all...

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[TugboatEng]

They said it in the article, there was meth involved.

 

[JohnRBaker]

Not exactly. It merely stated that when they searched the person's property they discovered "an “inactive” meth lab". There was no indication that meth had anything to do with this case nor the behavior of the person being charged. In fact, despite multiple charges being filed, there was NOTHING related to the use or possession of meth, and considering that there were no meth charges, that "inactive lab" had to have been very inactive, meaning no chemicals or finished product, and I would suspect that it also was such that there was no evidence that it had been used in the recent past, or else there would have been at least some additional charges.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without