The TALIBAN are asking for international/US help ....
MJCronin
Sr. Process Engineer
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-- More than 2,000 people dead - powerful earthquake strikes western Afghanistan, 15
- Thread starter MJCronin
- Start date
9-11 was hatched by the Saudis and planned in Germany... The government allowed Bin Laden's family to fly from the US after they had grounded other aircraft...
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So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
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So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
Alistair_Heaton
Mechanical
CWB1 your just using recent history. This goes back century's.
Its the war lords you should be looking at. They swap sides regularly to who ever pays the most. Doesn't matter who the current name is. Its the same tribal groups. Pay them to not kill people and they won't. Expect them to not kill people and not get paid and people start getting killed.
Simple.
The trying to impose western political logic on the setup is as utterly pointless as trying to predict what Russia is going to do.
Its the war lords you should be looking at. They swap sides regularly to who ever pays the most. Doesn't matter who the current name is. Its the same tribal groups. Pay them to not kill people and they won't. Expect them to not kill people and not get paid and people start getting killed.
Simple.
The trying to impose western political logic on the setup is as utterly pointless as trying to predict what Russia is going to do.
...and again.
-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
Alistair, disagree but admittedly had many frustrating moments as a young soldier where I'd have agreed that the culture was unchanging. Realistically, every culture changes over time despite the impact of tradition, religion, tribalism, remote isolation, and other factors. 20 years ago I remember being surprised that cell/sat phones and laptops had been adopted more quickly than stateside, but when you consider the lack of cheap landlines and reliable grid access the cellular and battery-powered devices make sense. IME the local tribalism in Afghanistan is simply their local form of govt, in some areas its very democratic and downright dictatorial elsewhere. Its also not unlike the nepotism and other nonsense common in Smalltown USA govts where generations of fathers&sons have been mayor, police chief, etc. I dont blame any single level of any govt for any country's issues, there's rot at every level in every govt.
Personally, I have no issue extending charity to friendly third-world countries who are genuinely trying to improve themselves. OTOH, I have big issues with offering aide to unfriendly countries and 1st-2nd world countries who can fend for themselves. I'll also be the first to say that the US needs to refocus much of its foreign aide inward and focus on resolving our own infrastructure and economic issues.
Personally, I have no issue extending charity to friendly third-world countries who are genuinely trying to improve themselves. OTOH, I have big issues with offering aide to unfriendly countries and 1st-2nd world countries who can fend for themselves. I'll also be the first to say that the US needs to refocus much of its foreign aide inward and focus on resolving our own infrastructure and economic issues.
Alistair_Heaton
Mechanical
If you look at at the war lords from the Soviet era they are pretty much the same ones today.
The locals were doing the same thing back in the silk road days.
1840 was the first time the British army got defeated there I think.
The biggest issue is you can't actually get aid to the people. It goes through the war lords. So the fighters get all the food and clothes building materials etc bartered for weapons.
If you personally give a kid some clothes the next day they will be back in the same rags more than likely beaten up. Food unless they eat it front of you same thing.
The reason why the withdrawal and collapse happened so quickly was basically everyone changed sides overnight.
An aid truck turning up may show it being handed out to the cameras but as soon as cameras are gone everything will be collected and removed from those seen on camera getting it. They have watchers and if a box of canned food isn't handed over then they are dead.
The locals were doing the same thing back in the silk road days.
1840 was the first time the British army got defeated there I think.
The biggest issue is you can't actually get aid to the people. It goes through the war lords. So the fighters get all the food and clothes building materials etc bartered for weapons.
If you personally give a kid some clothes the next day they will be back in the same rags more than likely beaten up. Food unless they eat it front of you same thing.
The reason why the withdrawal and collapse happened so quickly was basically everyone changed sides overnight.
An aid truck turning up may show it being handed out to the cameras but as soon as cameras are gone everything will be collected and removed from those seen on camera getting it. They have watchers and if a box of canned food isn't handed over then they are dead.
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The Phil-Hartman-as-Clinton Mcdonald's 'Warlords' sketch comes to mind
I dont disagree about the futility of providing aide in this circumstance, only the stereotype that the country is incapable of ever improving itself and a bit of history.
The country fell slowly over a decade bc of American politics, the same reason why many disasters happen here and overseas. One of our political parties does something good, the other side is elected, and good policy is replaced with bad as a talking point for political fundraising. Afghanistan was a reasonably safe/boring country thru the 2000s due to a very active military involvement at local levels. Our troops were the "inspector general" policing local govt and keeping things lawful and democratic. ~2010 the politicos reversed the mission and rules of engagement, our involvement in local govt suddenly became nonexistent and troops told to ignore local atrocities, allowing rampant Taliban corruption. Afghans had to either join them or suffer bc our troops couldn't intervene if locals were raped/murdered at our gates and the local Tali govt did nothing. During the withdrawal a decade later, the national govt/military folded rapidly bc our politicians not only cut the govt-govt supply lines but also banned the US private-sector from selling or supporting directly. Without beans, bullets, and in Afghan's case helicopters, armies die or desert as theirs did.
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- #29
electricpete
Electrical
With all our advances, it's still a messy world, filled with suffering. It's too bad that science / technology can't figure out some better way to nudge us collectively towards peace and equitable humanitarian assistance.
Alistair_Heaton
Mechanical
It's not really a stereotype of just Afghanistan.
I am struggling to think of any country that's had a significant change in culture during or after these sort of occupations. Even ones that have been occupied for hundreds of years and generations with the originals long dead don't.
Maybe my cultural experience of Irish history and multiple other British empire screw ups makes me cynical
I am struggling to think of any country that's had a significant change in culture during or after these sort of occupations. Even ones that have been occupied for hundreds of years and generations with the originals long dead don't.
Maybe my cultural experience of Irish history and multiple other British empire screw ups makes me cynical
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