Is SW on the right track? 10

[Phadreus]

I’ll throw this out, hopefully for some constructive candid feedback.

I have been seeing a reoccurring theme since getting involved with SW (back in 2004), and have been receiving a good deal of feedback from some of my seasoned users that have made the same observation, since 1999. The observation is; each release of SW since 1999 has not significantly improved in stability and performance. Also, the Service Pack route has been netting the same type of results; they fix some bugs and cause new problems each time. We seem to have experienced an “excessive” amount of “bugs” and problems in SW 2007, more so than we were accustomed to seeing in SW 2004 and SW 2006 (SW 2005 was a nightmare for us). Maybe the odd numbered releases have more problems? ?

I attended a local User Group Mtg for the SW 2007 rollout and after seeing all the new “gee whiz” functions, I asked the SW Regional Sales Mgr “all the new features are great, however; could SW drive their next release solely towards stability, performance and making all existing functions work well?” I was in an audience of about 70 persons, and overall they reacted as a mob. I was very surprised how vocal the group was in agreeing with my sentiment. The Sales Mgr’s response was “we hear this all the time, and this is an argument that exists within SW…the fact is that new features sell well, and what would we say to new customers; “SW 200X, now our stuff works”, that wouldn’t sell”. I argued that they could easily sell this as “SW 200X, the most stable, best performing package on the market”. Another user spoke up and said “I’ve been on SW since 1997, and between 1997 and 1999; SW had the market for great performance and great stability. We bought SW based on word of mouth from other users that raved about performance and stability and you never hear of that anymore”. The Sales Mgr, had no real response to pacify the group.

We run a pretty tight ship in our company, being the CAD Manager; I have extensive data since SW 2004 on benchmarking our performance as well as Crash logs provided by my users. There is a definite downward trend that I have observed in stability and performance.

Does anyone have any other observations that can give perspective beyond these observations? BTW, I would like to keep this constructive and am not intending on moaning and complaining only. I AM a big fan of SW and want to see them succeed.

Cheers


M.B. Price CSWP

http://www.assembly-testww.com

Automated Assembly & Test Systems

 

[Eltron]

That's just silly, Matt. Why would they do that when they have us as free tech support? When the users are utilized as part of the design cycle of software (and business is still good) the company will have no reason to modify their release cycles or their update policies. We can't really send in an ER for their business model can we?

I agree with you, though, to the extent that their releases and release cycle aren't outpaced and outdated by technological advances.

Dan

http://www.eltronresearch.com

 

[fcsuper]

Sarcasm duly noted.

I have been sending ER's in for this. My VAR suggested it, actually.

BTW, it wouldn't mean free tech support. The subscription would still be yearly for the updates, tech support and other value added services.



Matt Lorono
CAD Engineer/ECN Analyst
Silicon Valley, CA
Lorono's SolidWorks Resources
Co-moderator of Solidworks Yahoo! Group
and Mechnical.Engineering Yahoo! Group

 

[J-C]

Windows is on a 2 to 4 year devleopment cycle and its still released with bugs. No software is flawless, regardless of the amount time spent developing it.

Some bugs they will just never catch until some user stumbles upon it as its hard to test every conceivable variable, and every sequence of steps, not to mention all the different hardware the software has to run on.

Its the reason game devs like the Xbox and Playstation versus PC games. One set of hardware to program to.

Jason

SolidWorks 2007 SP5.0
SolidWorks 2008 SP0.1
WinXp sp2 (32 and 64 bit)

 

[fcsuper]

Well, the point is not that it won't be released with bugs, it's that the platform will have a chance to mature to that it spends most of its live with most of the serious bugs resolved.

Matt Lorono
CAD Engineer/ECN Analyst
Silicon Valley, CA
Lorono's SolidWorks Resources
Co-moderator of Solidworks Yahoo! Group
and Mechnical.Engineering Yahoo! Group

 

[dsgnr1]

I would agree to a slow down, but think that updating (or catching bug fixes) as an option would wreak havok on the file translation aspect. My scenario goes like this: A vendor and I have the same release, however, he has a couple fixes in his that allow some feature that my machine can't handle. I really don't know if this would be possible, but think that it could only spell trouble.

I am afraid that I am a bit jaded at this point to answer the original poinient question. I am still recovering from a recent 2007 install. I do have a couple guys that have questionable vc's though. I am not admin, but am the co. cad guru through osmosis (and ENG_TIPS, I must say), so I am heavily relied upon to point out these hardware infractions when they occur. At this point I am bringing an old Pro E user into the wonderful world of Solidworks and have been somewhat surprised at how many work arounds that I really use.

Right direction? I thought that 2006 was supposed to address some performance issues? It seemed to come along o.k. I was crashing 5 or 6 times a day with v7sp4. I had my IT guy rev me to sp5 and have had fewer crashes. (BTW, the real reason that I got sp5 was to cover lost functionality with toolbox...just ask anyone who tried to rename a folder with sp4).

I would not (at this point) suggest that our company switch software. I do think SW is on the right track and also think that some of you guys have nailed down the underlying problems between marketing and manufacturing needs.

Let me end (please) with some water cooler type humor. My associate and I were discussing what this new tool was in SW 2007. A new tab appeared along the right side of our monitors called recovery or something. Don't get me wrong, I like the feature that saves my drawing / assembly after Iv'e crashed. My associate said that this feature would be like General Motors offering free wrecker service due to faulty engineering.

dsgnr1

 

[SBaugh]

I did not read many of the above posts. But I am giving my .02 worth now.

Everyone designs in many different ways. SW has the training to help users design the way the software was written. Some bugs I see are because the user is not using SW the way it was intended and SW should not fix something just because it does not work the way a user thinks it should. If your not doing it correctly then it’s you fault, not the Solidworks.

I find that 08 is more stable then any release to date. Hardest part about 08 is the install process it changed and everyone wigging out. It’s the same install process it’s just through the Install Manager now and you have to select the right options to get to the install your wanting.

I think SW is heading in the right the direction and I have for many years now. Despite all the threads that are posted like this one. SW has the performance logging to help with stability and over 80% of the people I talk to say they don't use it... why not? You are the guys that are complaining about stability, but yet you don't want to help with this process? You’re shooting yourself in your own foot.

If you want better stability Do the Beta testing, provide SW the needed information when you crash. Make SW RX's send them to your VAR's for help and bug reports... Software is not perfect and when you run a piece of software that is demanding on machine performance and constant maintenance your asking for trouble. Everyone install different and everyone’s machine is different. Yeah you can order the same machine from a single mfg like Dell... but those components were made separately and there could be a problem. Don't shoot your Tech support guy because he says it’s a VC, or HDD etc... It might be. We deal with this day in day out. Don’t rule out everything some one says… we handle these issues more often then “How do I build this?” Consider all the options and help your Tech guys to help you and the process is much easier and you will gain respect for it. Just complaining about the software to me goes in one ear and out the other… show me the complaint and have data to back it up… Then I have no problem sending it to SW… that is my job day in day out.

You as a user must look at the big picture and not see so narrow minded that Software should be flawless and be totally bug free. Sorry to tell you, but it’s never going to be... That's like saying your car will NEVER break down... whatever I have a truck sitting out back with a shot Transmission. Should I throw a complaint to Chevy for not making a transmission last the life of the Truck? It was expensive once... But when it broke when it was new it was covered for so many miles... now its just junk... but the engine runs and there are some good parts on it still. I am not going to complain because the Transmission is shot. Its just part of life and you have to expect some problems... if you think your crashing more often then others... then send it in and stop complaining... these threads are so old its sickening. Sorry to be a negative post tonight... but these threads have been here since 96 and there is always one guy to start the thread and every one just feeds into it.

Instead of being a complainer, be the guy that helps to solve the issues and work with your TS help desk... if you have a VAR you don't like, then either switch to another one or call SW directly that will get your VAR in gear. Just help with the situation instead of making it worse… IMO that’s 95% of the problems today in the world… everyone wants you to hand it to them instead of just getting up and making a difference. I go to work everyday… hoping that I might make a difference to some Engineer that is battling something in SW, whether its install, how do I do this, or just a simple a question that he has never done. I get that respect because there are many people that respect my opinion when they talk to me and I respect them for giving me the chance to help… its even better when they compliment me as well. I started helping people in this very NG back in 2001. Since then I found something that I like to do and something I am good at. Helping people. It’s not like a doctor helping people, but its form that users can’t live without. But to me it was important that I stayed in my career versus traveling outside it. I miss designing… but I know I would miss helping others more.

If we had more givers versus complainers it would be such a better place, both here in the SW Community and the world.. Be a part of the solution instead of the problem.

Sorry for the long winded reply.

Regards,

Scott Baugh, CSWP

http://www.scottjbaugh.com

"If it's not broke, Don't fix it!"

faq731-376

 

[Phadreus]

"these threads are so old its sickening. Sorry to be a negative post tonight... but these threads have been here since 96 and there is always one guy to start the thread and every one just feeds into it."

Now thats ironic Scott! In a single breath you not only condemed what you have not clearly understood, but contributed to what you have professed to be sickened by. Ah, the duality of man...

It seems to me that nobody in this entire thread ever stated anything that leads anyone to believe that they refuse to participate in programs like the performance log, RX Reports, SPR's and such. The fact of the matter is, that the topic is a valid one, and I (the one who started it) did not simply go to the web and "complain" about SW, I took a very active approach and spoke dirrectly with PM's within SW about this topic. It was all very constructive, and contrary to what you might be leading us to believe, the people at SW that I spoke to professed to "really appreciate such candid feedback" and also commented "this is the exact type stuff we need to hear and consider" and most importantly of all "this has been an ongoing debate within our organization (SW) for quite a while now, and it's great to have some users weigh in on the topic". After my conversation with people within SW, I received several e-mails from them thanking me for my input and was also invited (and participated ) in several mini User Group meetings with them.

If threads like this sicken you, don't participate in them, and certainly don't kick the ones that do choose to participate in them for doing so. I know it must be important to you to give your 2 cent on every topic, and I deeply respect guys like yourself that put in so much effort giving your opinions, however; as you cleverly illuded to: these threads can become negative and sickening.

My final thought: I ask you this, "did your post contribute to the sickening negative side, or was it constructive, informative and positive?". I of course, don't need and answer, you need that answer for yourself.

No hard feelings Scott, just voicing MY 2 cents. Cheers my friend!


M.B. Price CSWP

http://www.assembly-testww.com

Automated Assembly & Test Systems

 

[ctopher]

I wanted to throw in my .02 about SolidWorks.
SolidWorks is very good, and in the right hands, can work beautifully. ALL PCs are different. SolidWorks is sensitive and can not keep up with all of the different configurations and tweaks that people change on their PCs. It is a medium range CAD software. Higher range CAD are more expensive and the companies that have them can afford to hire a CAD manager that can keep up with their tweaks. Lower range CAD can run on just about anything.
So, users have to be patient, follow the installation instructions, buy the proper hardware, get proper training, and be consistent throughout the company...and everything will work fine.

Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 1.1
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 10-07-07)
ctopher's blog

 

[BARM]

Phadreus, Clearly you care and are proactive and open minded. Thanks for your efforts.


ctopher
"Higher range CAD are more expensive and the companies that have them can afford to hire a CAD manager that can keep up with their tweaks."
I'm 19 years in the industry and haven't worked with a CAD Manager yet. I must be working at the wrong companies.

 

[ctopher]

They are usually larger-medium to very-large companies. SOme companies have managers that act as CAD managers.

Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 1.1
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 10-07-07)
ctopher's blog

 

[Phadreus]

Thanks fellas, I appreciate it... I do realize how fortunate my company is to not only have enough size / revenues to employee me as the CAD Manager but also that the Management recognizes the benefits of having a CAD Manager and supports my existance. This is not the case with many companies. We have over 100 users spread out over five US Sites and it is quite the job keeping everyone moving in the same direction as well as fielding all the questions, training users, procuring new Hardware, Custom Software solutions and keeping attitudes possitive. Oh man, I just realized; my job stinks! LOL

Cheers all!

M.B. Price CSWP

http://www.assembly-testww.com

Automated Assembly & Test Systems

 

[Heckler]

When I worked at LM we had an onsite SDRC applications engineer and a MCAD group. I guess since LM had about 600 seats corporate wide that justified having the MCAD support.

I like Matt's idea about a 2-4 year development cycle it would take the stress out of getting the new release out in September verses making the current release stable. PTC does that for Pro/E and it works just fine....they have major and minor build releases.

Heckler
Sr. Mechanical Engineer
SWx 2007 SP 4.0 & Pro/E 2001
o
_`\(,_
(_)/ (_)

This post contains no political overtones or undertones for that matter and in no way represents the poster's political agenda.

 

[SBaugh]

I was talking about posting them here... taking them to SW is the best idea and I respect that... just tired of reading thread after thread on this. Taking it to SW is a proactive thing to do. Good job. Most come here and just complain about SW direction. comp.solidworks.com was horrible about that and that's why I left that group... just became a complain station. Like I said in the beginning I didn't read but a handful of posts last night. So I do apologize if I had offended you or anyone else. Just tired of these types of posts for random users.

I would rather see guys like you take their issues straight SW instead of posting them.

Best Regards

Scott Baugh, CSWP

http://www.scottjbaugh.com

"If it's not broke, Don't fix it!"

faq731-376

 

[josephv]

Don't have any pennies so here are my 5 cents...

While I completely agree with Scott and many of the group that mentioned that several of the issues we experience with SWX have to do with hardware, OS, networks, OLE, graphics drivers, installation problems and the keyboard user interface...

The truth is that SWX has bugs here and there. Yes, there will always be bugs. But, I don't think it is unreasonable for the customers to demand less bugs (better quality) and new functionality at the same time.

Further to this, I am not convinced that the quality of the software has necessarily gone down. But one thing I have noticed is that as users become more advanced and start using top down, equations, design tables ... they are more likely to find bugs.

Final note, yes I am a PITA customer... I want better quality (less bugs) and more functionality... and I want it now.

 

[josephv]

One thing, I forgot to add was that in my book, SWX is a great company with an amazing product... but I still want better quality and more functionality.

 

[josephv]

Sorry Scott,

Obviously we both made posts at the same time.

"I would rather see guys like you take their issues straight SW instead of posting them."

I agree with you, that is more effective.

take care,

J

 

[fcsuper]

Well, to answer Scott, I'm sure SW staff knows my name well. At times, I frequent the E.R. page as much as i do Yahoo.com (slight hyperbole, of course )

Matt Lorono
CAD Engineer/ECN Analyst
Silicon Valley, CA
Lorono's SolidWorks Resources
Co-moderator of Solidworks Yahoo! Group
and Mechnical.Engineering Yahoo! Group

 

[dogarila]

I am with Scott on this one. Blaming SW for stability has always been a very popular issue (you can see the number of stars this Phadreus person got). In my case I can't remember when was last time SW crashed. And that has been the case with SW2007, 2006, 2005 and 2004. Some of the early ones from SP2.0 and up.

In most cases it is easier to blame SW or hardware or Windows than to accept your own stupidity fault. Do your own installation properly, make sure AV is disabled, use the latest certified drivers by SW, use recommended hardware (this is a big one, people try to cut corners using cheap hardware and when they have problems geuss whose fault it is again?), don't overload your computer. Don't trust IT, they have no finesse in installing SW and most of the time they are too arrogant to listen to good advice. Listen to Scott because he knows what he's talking about. Just my 5 cents..

 

[Phadreus]

So, so this topic doesn't get taken out of context; I would like to remind that I stated in my start of the overall thread; "Does anyone have any other observations that can give perspective beyond these observations? BTW, I would like to keep this constructive and am not intending on moaning and complaining only. I AM a big fan of SW and want to see them succeed."

I do have to say that since I created this thread, I have completely reformatted my users Workstations and installed everything from scratch and have seen a difference. Stability is better than it has ever been as well as performance. However; I was not seeking to simply solve my current random stability and performance issues per say, I was seeking opinions on weather other people are satisfied in SW's current balance of "new functionality vs improved performance / stability". I haven't heard anyone say they think SW has hit the perfect bulls eye yet on their balance of efforts.

In closing, I very much appreciate all the feedback and contributions everyone has put into this thread and guys like Scott and his disciples have a VERY valid point that in "no way is complaining on the web going to solve any problems". However, just in this thread alone, I have received constructive feedback that I have implemented into my installations that have made improvements. I also provided the contents of this thread to SW reps and they seemed very much appreciative (the active approach, if you will).

Cheers all and thanks for the input!!!

That Phadreus person...


M.B. Price CSWP

http://www.assembly-testww.com

Automated Assembly & Test Systems

 

[Phadreus]

Ok, to put a final cap-off on this topic…I attended SW World last week and I was very encouraged at the things I heard Jeff Ray (SW CEO) say in the general sessions. Apparently, Jeff went on a “world tour” visiting over fifty cities in over thirty countries seeking feedback from SW Users. Jeff got an overwhelming number of Users saying the same thing to him, and I quote; “…gosh Jeff, all these new features SW puts in each new release is great, but can’t you take one release and focus on performance and stability?” end quote. If you go back to my opening comments in my thread, you will see the circle has been completed as Jeff stated that the main focus for SW 2009 will be performance and stability. SW is seeing a 65% improvement in performance between 2008 vs 2009 at this point (2009 Alpha) and are anticipating improvements over these figures by the time of production release.

As I was one of the users that had this conversation with a number of people with SW including Jeff, I am now very encouraged with SW. Now if they do what they say (and there is no reason to believe they won’t), we should be seeing some impressive performance with SW 09. Just as much as the promise of improved performance and stability, I am thrilled to see how much SW is paying attention to their users and the user’s needs. This is how it is supposed to work!


M.B. Price CSWP

http://www.assembly-testww.com

Automated Assembly & Test Systems