Inspection of Residential Structure 3

[Lion06]

Hello all,

It's been a long time. Someone sent me a message that some were asking questions about where I was at so I figured this would be as good a time as any to stop in to say hi and get some great feedback with something current. I was going through some difficult personal/family changes, but things are starting to get back to normal now so I hope to be back and hopefully contributing with some regularity.

I've been asked by a friend to inspect a house he wants to buy. It was fire damaged and has been rehabbed and the structure is currently almost completely exposed. Many items are common sense, but I have not done this type of inspection before and want to do a good job. Is there a book or checklist so I make sure I don't overlook anything?

Do you think I need some kind of waiver to be signed? This is a friend and I'm doing this as a favor (no pay), but don't want to end up on the hook for anything.

 

[msquared48]

Good to see you back. Glad to hear the news. Keep on keeping on. It is getting tougher.

As for the waiver, I am not a lawyer, but have always used a disclaimer for years listing the regular inspection items, particularly those you have not designed and cannot see - example - the foundation.

I think there have been several posts in the forums on fire damaged lumber and the degree of charring relating to trusses and the effects of heat on the connectors and wood too.

Ron will have a lot of good input here... Give him a ringy dinghy.

Again, good to see you back.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

 

[msquared48]

Oh, and if you end up having to stamp something for submittal, regardless of any pay you may or may not receive, you will be on the hook as the EOR, with the associated liability, friend or not, so please protect yourself...

If you have not already, contacting a lawyer to draft up a standard disclaimer that can be tailored as needed would not be a bad investment for this and future work on the side.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

 

[Ron]

Lion06...good to have you back!

Make sure you have your friend sign your agreement...even if your fee is zero! Have him indemnify you against all claims regarding your work, including future buyers. This means that HE accepts the responsibility for your recommendations and conclusions.

As for the inspection....

Charred wood is usually a big red flag and sometimes a deal killer. If any charred wood is to remain, you have to justify its existence! Sometimes that's not a big deal, particularly if isolated. Blackened wood is different. That can be cleaned and should be....if not it just makes future transactions difficult.

Check for truss plate separation...this is a biggy in fire damage. If the truss plates have pulled away from the wood, there is significant capacity loss, so either correct by nailing all plates to restore contact or replace members.

Keep in mind the change in moisture content of the wood. If low, it will likely stabilize after remediation and cause cosmetic issues. If high, it will also stabilize and cause movement.

No good deed goes unpunished....be careful!

 

[BAretired]

Lion06, welcome back.

Your friend is asking a lot of you for no fee. I will have to disagree with Ron on this issue (a rare occurrence). I would recommend that your friend retain a forensic engineering firm experienced in fire investigations and pay a reasonable fee for services rendered. He should not indemnify the firm against claims for their work, including claims by future buyers. He should not assume responsibility for their recommendations and conclusions. Otherwise, there would be no point in retaining experts. And that is why they purchase professional liability insurance.

BA

 

[Lion06]

Thanks for the welcome back and, as always, for the great information.

BA - I would generally agree with you, but I know he's not flush with cash. He helped me out with a couple things when I really needed it and I would like to return the favor. At the same time I want to make sure I'm not putting myself at risk by doing this for him.

I guess it makes sense to reach out to a lawyer to draft a disclaimer. Is there any boiler plate language out there that any lawyer would have access to or do I need to look for a specific type of attorney?

 

[Ron]

BAretired...I agree with you completely....I was under the impression that was not an option and offered my $0.02 for Lion's protection in that event. Even that exercise won't completely protect him as lawyers seem to get around indemnity agreements.

Lion06...I'll send you my indemnification clause and limitation of liability when I get to the office.

 

[ztengguy]

I would tell him you would do a walk thru with him and point out areas of concern, he can make notes and take that to the owner and have them address it, either fix it or they can pay for a engineer to prove you wrong, in writing.

 

[rowingengineer]

Lion,
Do you have insurance, if yes then all good, if not then get some (and I don't mean insurance that is covered by your company). Insurance agencies that get paid by % fee get very upset when you charge 0% and will turn down claims on this basis, I hope your insurance is not on a % fee setup. You can try and get a waiver ect, but be aware that you are no practicing outside you expertise and generally this means that you can be found negligent and then all gloves are off.

But side stepping all the dome and gloom, I would recommend that you break your inspection down into a few items, this will allow you to track the issues and give each item the time it deserves. Yes the fire damage will be the main concern but other items are worth reviewing. these could range from - soil movement, wall/roof leakage, water ingress, degradation of water proofing.... I could go on forever without a house to review it is hard to be exact.

also what type of structure is this? there is different issue to each type of structure and traps for new players. Ron covered some timber, for concrete we talk about mineralogical changes and estimated temp and steel is different again. give us an idea and we will try to be more helpful.

Do you know the estimated temperature for the fire, sometimes the fireman is helpful in guessing this figure and generally as accurate as any other method I have found.

http://www.nceng.com.au/

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."

 

[Lion06]

Ron - that would be great.

rowing - as far as I'm aware, the fire damaged timber has been replaced. I have no intention or desire to comment on waterproofing or anything outside of the structural aspects of the structure. It's a wood framed residential structure. This not a "home inspection", more a structural inspection of a home.

I was planning to look for things that stand out as incorrect (e.g. Electrical or plumbing holes drilled too close to the edges of studs or joists, improper or improper installed joist hangers). I do not want to get in to checking anchor bolt spacing, shearwall hold down locations an capacity, nail spacings, etc.)

 

[Ron]

Lion06...here is my "sanitized" agreement for professional services. Feel free to use any or all.

 

[Lion06]

Thanks, Ron. That's gold.

 

[SLTA]

Back to your first question - there are definitely books about structural investigation.

A brilliant preservation engineer (and a friend) wrote this one. I haven't read it yet but Dave did SO MUCH that I bet there would be good ideas you could follow in here.

http://www.amazon.com/Structural-Investigation-Historic-Buildings-Preservation/dp/0470189673

Another great preservation engineer wrote this one:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Investiga...730549/ref=pd_luc_wl_01_03_t_lh?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I also have a copy of this one, and it's sure helpful:

http://www.amazon.com/Structural-Ap...structural+appraisal+of+traditional+buildings

Then there's also the standards:

http://www.asce.org/Books-and-Journ...ion-Assessment-of-Existing-Buildings-(11-99)/

http://www.astm.org/Standards/E2018.htm

Good luck!